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Old 06-07-2016, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Amongst the AZ Cactus
7,074 posts, read 4,896,643 times
Reputation: 7699

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Welcome to the new america people, where actions often have very little to no major consequences. There's often an excuse/justification for just about every bad behavior now it seems except justice for the victim.

What could possibly go wrong with such a thought process model?
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Old 06-07-2016, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,982 posts, read 12,217,889 times
Reputation: 14815
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
you keep returning to a mantra that I am blaming the victims. That is flat out wrong. Not one time have I done that in this thread or at any other time in my life.

I don't do victim blaming.

What I am saying is that in addition to looking at the preditors, we need to recognize that we have collectively as a society made our society less safe.

we put this young lady in greater danger than she should have been in.

I get you don't get it. you have a perspective to protect. Its going to get worse because we wont deal with what is wrong with society.

You don't want to acknowledge it but you ARE blaming the victim.
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Old 06-07-2016, 03:26 PM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,104 posts, read 34,533,299 times
Reputation: 16148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
You don't want to acknowledge it but you ARE blaming the victim.
Why can't I blame the victim for showing a complete lack of commonsense? Was he the first man to ever take advantage of a woman's inebriated state? There have been these situations for as long as there has been human beings consuming alcohol. Stop coddling these victims. They do need to take responsibility and not put themselves in vulnerable situations.
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Old 06-07-2016, 03:29 PM
 
Location: H-Tine, Texas
6,742 posts, read 4,108,061 times
Reputation: 8528
Quote:
Originally Posted by texan2yankee View Post
Let’s get one thing straight, OK. Perpetrators of sexual assault are responsible for their crimes and should be prosecuted. I don't think anyone would argue differently.

Where we disagree is I strongly believe we are failing to let young women know that when they render themselves defenseless, terrible things can be done to them.

Young women are getting a distorted message that the right to drink themselves into oblivion is a feminist issue. Women should be able to drink copious amounts of alcohol and suffer no consequences.

The feminist message should be that when women get drunk, they lose the ability to be responsible for themselves and drastically increase the chances of attracting the kinds of people who could cause them harm or worse.

Stating facts is not blaming the victim. Telling women not to get drunk and to be smart is not sexist. Being honest about the facts is trying to prevent more victims.


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Results: Findings indicate that almost 20% of undergraduate women experienced some type of completed sexual assault since entering college. Most sexual assaults occurred after women voluntarily consumed alcohol, whereas few occurred after women had been given a drug without their knowledge or consent.
No, you're doing everything possible to shift the focus off of the rapist and onto the victim.

In your blathering rants about how women need to be more responsible, you never once mention the men in this equation, especially the ones who cannot control their alcohol and do ridiculously stupid and harmful things. As I stated before, alcohol can be a motivator for people to do things that they may have only thought about doing.

What you're doing, by continually shifting the focus onto women and their alcohol intake, doesn't discouraging the behavior of men to engaging in non-consensual sexual acts with women, because nowhere in your posts are you holding men accountable for their decisions. If anything, it encourages men to believe they can get away with it and may discourage more women from reporting assaults, just because they believe they'll be shamed for being drunk during the assault.

Quite frankly, I find it hard to believe that you are a woman, and if so, this is pretty appalling.





Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
IMO the sentence makes sense. That young man's reputation is ruined for the rest of his life. He is now permanently on the sex offenders list. And no matter what he ends up doing for work, he will never get any endorsement deals or become top management for any company. He will be a pariah wherever he goes.
Oh boo-hoo. His reputation is ruined. He should've thought about that before he raped an unconscious woman he had no prior contact with, before running off like the guilty punk that he is. He made the decision to get wasted, not anyone else, and he made the decision to rape this girl, not anyone else.

Bleep his reputation. No one gave a rip about Brian Banks' reputation, but of course, he didn't look like a golden boy like poor Brock.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
And what would a longer prison sentence accomplish? Also longer sentence would cost taxpayers more money. Instead, let that man become a productive citizen sooner.
It sends a message to a POS like Brock Turner, that it doesn't matter if you're a golden boy from a good family and a "bright" future, there is no excuse for raping anyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
And I do have sympathy for the girl, but women need to stop putting themselves in vulnerable positions. When alcohol and drugs are involved, it's just not a smart combination when counting on the people around to behave morally and responsibly. It's not as if it were a chaperoned party. And that's why there are chaperones at high school dances.
No you don't. You have this faux sympathy for this girl, before you turn around and blame her for this. Once again, the accountability, the onus, is always on the woman in this situation and never on the man.

I hope to God none of you have daughters.

Last edited by ATG5; 06-07-2016 at 03:43 PM..
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Old 06-07-2016, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,982 posts, read 12,217,889 times
Reputation: 14815
Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
Why can't I blame the victim for showing a complete lack of commonsense? Was he the first man to ever take advantage of a woman's inebriated state? There have been these situations for as long as there has been human beings consuming alcohol. Stop coddling these victims. They do need to take responsibility and not put themselves in vulnerable situations.

I'll refrain from responding further for fear I'll be banned.
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Old 06-07-2016, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
22,453 posts, read 24,010,923 times
Reputation: 48648
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missingatlanta View Post
I agree. Why don't men just drink less if they can't control themselves.
Women in burkas were brought up earlier. Along those lines, if men can't control their drinking and raping instincts maybe they're the ones who need to be segregated from society and constantly chaperoned.
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Old 06-07-2016, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
20,274 posts, read 9,903,778 times
Reputation: 19926
Taking this specific case out of the equation, and looking strictly at statistics, both young men and women shouldn't be binge drinking at all. It puts everyone at risk.
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Old 06-07-2016, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Texas
43,410 posts, read 52,413,699 times
Reputation: 70378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
you keep returning to a mantra that I am blaming the victims. That is flat out wrong. Not one time have I done that in this thread or at any other time in my life.


I don't do victim blaming.


What I am saying is that in addition to looking at the preditors, we need to recognize that we have collectively as a society made our society less safe.


we put this young lady in greater danger than she should have been in.




I get you don't get it. you have a perspective to protect. Its going to get worse because we wont deal with what is wrong with society.
How would you have made her safer?

What have the "progressives" done SPECIFICALLY that has made rape more "accessible"?

You've made a lot of vague references to men and women being the same, etcetera. But you haven't actually explained what exactly you mean.

It sounds like you're saying is that women should not be allowed or encouraged to walk about freely and behave in the same manner as men. Which is despicable, ridiculous, and arcane.

I say this as a full-fledged conservative. And I don't have any blinders on about the supposed good old days. Rapists and beaters and molesters had a lot more protection back then than they do now.

But I'd rather not assume and just gets specifics from you.
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Old 06-07-2016, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Texas
43,410 posts, read 52,413,699 times
Reputation: 70378
Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
Why can't I blame the victim for showing a complete lack of commonsense? Was he the first man to ever take advantage of a woman's inebriated state? There have been these situations for as long as there has been human beings consuming alcohol. Stop coddling these victims. They do need to take responsibility and not put themselves in vulnerable situations.
Being drunk compromises your safety when you're among men who want to rape you.

Well, so does being tired, being physically weaker, being on certain medications, being an amputee...

But only the drinking makes the girl share the blame?

Ok.
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Old 06-07-2016, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
27,139 posts, read 29,539,194 times
Reputation: 26599
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPowering1 View Post
Taking this specific case out of the equation, and looking strictly at statistics, both young men and women shouldn't be binge drinking at all. It puts everyone at risk.
Sure. But we live in reality. And college kids and young adults are going to socialize with alcohol. And many will drink to excess. And many will continue that behavior into adulthood.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't learn how to not rape people with or without alcohol.
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