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Old 06-08-2016, 01:27 PM
 
4,491 posts, read 1,663,700 times
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This is a truly fascinating case, I must say.

I read the letter Borck's father wrote. It's certainly an interesting read. And it makes a pretty strong point, though I don't think it's the one his father intended. I'm sympathetic to the boy's father. From his point of view, what's happening to his son is tragic. Any good quality he has will be pushed aside for his one wrong doing, and in many ways, I agree that something about this is somewhat unfair. Ex-cons often struggle to find employment after serving their time, and in my mind, this isn't write. To me, once you've paid your debt to society that the courts have authority to assign, I do believe people should have the opportunity for redemption. But, the truth is, many of them don't get that. Sex offenders are especially unlikely to get that opportunity, which Brock Turner will be one for the rest of his life.

To me, sex offender registry is not a merciful punishment. Yeah, six months in jail and a few years of probation are basically nothing for what he did, but lifetime registry on a list most assume is for violent pedophiles is actually pretty intense of a punishment. He'll have housing restrictions that will make finding a place to live unnecessarily difficulty, likely will not have much success in some places as people don't like living next to sex offenders, and being on that list will only further keep him from employment than having a criminal record already does. And I'm sure his dad isn't entirely wrong in saying that Brock has things to offer the world.

But he raped someone.

I read the victims letter and it's haunting. Truly haunting. If you haven't read it, I recommend doing so. But that's been talked about and I don't think I have anything new to say on it. But there was another leader that had less attention. It was written by just some man, no relation to the rapist or the victim, writing a response to Brock's father's letter. Basically he said he gets why the dad wants what he wants, but also think that he's missing out on the big picture. There's on line in particularly that lingered with me: "I don't think you're son is a monster, but I think he acted like one."

I get it. Sending Brock to prison would likely do more harm than good (which is great news for the tax payers who fund them...). Brock has good qualities that his father knows are true and likely, Brock will never amount to much going forward. And that's sad. But it's also sad that he raped someone. And I know, he was drunk, but I don't really think people do things while they're drunk that really contradict their character. I know I never have. When I'm intoxicated, I just act more like myself with less fear of being judged by others. It's why people hook up with random strangers while they're drunk, but not while sober. Humans like to ****. I know the Christian Conservatives don't want to hear it but it's true. When they're sober, they hold certain standards, like knowing the person at least a little bit before doing that. But when you're drunk, the social standards go away and people will do it before they really know anything about that person.

Yet, not every drunk person rapes someone. They still have sex, but not rape. Why? Because some people have it in their character to never have sex without permission. They might not know the person well, maybe not even their name, but they have respect for other people. Brock didn't. And he never did. He feigned it while sober. But when he was drunk, who cares? There's a chick that will bone him without any resistance so let's do it, right!? Granted, a classy man no matter how much he'd like to plow her would make sure she's ok, maybe take her home if she wasn't. Not **** her anyway. Brock isn't a classy guy. And while this is obviously just my opinion and isn't necessarily based on any science of alcohol and the brain, I really don't think that non-selfish people ever rape other people, even when they're drunk. But selfish people do. Regardless, Brock believed he was that deserving of ***** so we went for it. And sure, he probably would still know better than to do it when he was sober, but I don't believe that he ever thinks that he doesn't deserve it. Redeeming qualities or not, he had a character flaw and he let it get the best of him and that does warrant a punishment. No, I don't think he should never have an opportunity to succeed in life, but he did something horrible to another human being and he still has to pay a debt.

Sorry, this turned into a bit of a rant. I normally make an effort to keep my posts to a minimum of three short paragraphs. This one needed a bit more, I guess.
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Old 06-08-2016, 01:28 PM
 
4,899 posts, read 2,709,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Oh, he and his father and his friends are all over that. They very much regret that he drank. In fact, Brock lied his rear off about how he was a country kid with no experience of alcohol before college.
how is this part of a legal defense? does a murderer say "well your honor, I never held a knife before so I am inexperienced around them and it just sort of happened...duuuuuuuuuuuh"
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Old 06-08-2016, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,982 posts, read 12,230,274 times
Reputation: 14815
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northeastah View Post
how is this part of a legal defense? does a murderer say "well your honor, I never held a knife before so I am inexperienced around them and it just sort of happened...duuuuuuuuuuuh"
Well the pre-sentence recommendations referred to his inexperience with alcohol and lack of criminal record. I have to wonder how much influence that would have had if he had murdered someone?
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Old 06-08-2016, 01:46 PM
 
2,729 posts, read 712,229 times
Reputation: 7004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
Well the pre-sentence recommendations referred to his inexperience with alcohol and lack of criminal record. I have to wonder how much influence that would have had if he had murdered someone?
Right---every serial killer started with his first murder....

The good news is that Brock has already started to serve his term...
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Old 06-08-2016, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
20,388 posts, read 9,934,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcat22 View Post
Right---every serial killer started with his first murder....

The good news is that Brock has already started to serve his term...
The bad news is that because he doesn't have a father who tells him to man up and suffer the consequences for his actions, they're filing an appeal. I think they'll get nowhere with that, but it further clarifies what kind of people they are.
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Old 06-08-2016, 02:03 PM
 
32,204 posts, read 16,536,851 times
Reputation: 17294
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northeastah View Post
how is this part of a legal defense? does a murderer say "well your honor, I never held a knife before so I am inexperienced around them and it just sort of happened...duuuuuuuuuuuh"
They're throwing everything at the wall, something may stick.
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Old 06-08-2016, 02:15 PM
 
Location: The Hall of Justice
25,906 posts, read 36,242,807 times
Reputation: 42502
If Brock had a couple more drinks and passed out, either staggering behind a dumpster and blacking out or being dragged there, and woke up pantless and anally violated (maybe with a dirty stick since that's assault and not real rape) by a frat brother, does anyone here honestly believe that the conversation would be, "Well what did he expect, drinking so much? You know how boys are. Are we sure he said no? I mean sure, he was unconscious, but before that it's really a gray area, right? Of course it's terrible, but he really is partially responsible for what happened." Would Brock's father think six months in jail (and serving only three) was just? It was only a few minutes of action after all, and that frat brother has such a promising future.
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Old 06-08-2016, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Inland Northwest
596 posts, read 318,059 times
Reputation: 816
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJulia View Post
If Brock had a couple more drinks and passed out, either staggering behind a dumpster and blacking out or being dragged there, and woke up pantless and anally violated (maybe with a dirty stick since that's assault and not real rape) by a frat brother, does anyone here honestly believe that the conversation would be, "Well what did he expect, drinking so much? You know how boys are. Are we sure he said no? I mean sure, he was unconscious, but before that it's really a gray area, right? Of course it's terrible, but he really is partially responsible for what happened." Would Brock's father think six months in jail (and serving only three) was just? It was only a few minutes of action after all, and that frat brother has such a promising future.

He sexually assaulted her with a dirty stick? I have not heard that mentioned before.


Gross.
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Old 06-08-2016, 02:33 PM
 
Location: The Hall of Justice
25,906 posts, read 36,242,807 times
Reputation: 42502
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottPlake View Post
He sexually assaulted her with a dirty stick? I have not heard that mentioned before.

Gross.
No, with his fingers, getting dirt and pine needles in her vagina. She was bruised and abraded, so he was rough. An earlier poster is claiming it's not rape because he was convicted of sexual assault with a foreign object. I guess I could have made the scenario about rough, dirty fingers and pine needles in his anus to be more like Emily Doe's assault.

But yes, the scene was beyond gross.
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Old 06-08-2016, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,982 posts, read 12,230,274 times
Reputation: 14815
As we are on the topic of pedantics:

Why Brock Turner Wasn’t Technically Convicted of Rape
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