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Old 06-08-2016, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
1,384 posts, read 811,047 times
Reputation: 1635

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post



Bully for you!


What?

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As well?
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Are you saying you think it was primarily the victim's fault?
Did you read the quote that I was responding to? I think it was both of their fault.

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Seriously?
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Rape is OK if the attackee is awake at the beginning? What about consent?
If she was into it and then passed out, he may have been too drunk to have even noticed. She may have wanted it and then either regretted it later or was convinced by others that she's a victim.
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Old 06-08-2016, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,876 posts, read 102,269,915 times
Reputation: 32945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akonyo View Post
[/color][/b]What?

[b][color=Sienna]

Did you read the quote that I was responding to? I think it was both of their fault.

[b][color=SeaGreen]

If she was into it and then passed out, he may have been too drunk to have even noticed. She may have wanted it and then either regretted it later or was convinced by others that she's a victim.
Rape is the fault of the rapist and no one else.

Poor little Brockie, too drunk to notice his "intended" whose name he didn't even know, had passed out. That's rich! Considering what happened to her, I don't think she had to be convinced by others she was a victim. She wasn't even conscious to experience Brock's "action".
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Old 06-08-2016, 10:04 PM
 
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
1,384 posts, read 811,047 times
Reputation: 1635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Rape is the fault of the rapist and no one else.

Poor little Brockie, too drunk to notice his "intended" whose name he didn't even know, had passed out. That's rich! Considering what happened to her, I don't think she had to be convinced by others she was a victim. She wasn't even conscious to experience Brock's "action".
This incident is partially the victim's fault for putting herself in this situation to begin with. It's hard to deny that.

However, I do believe that the perpetrator (who was proven to not have committed rape) was primarily to blame.

Still though, I don't believe that he should have to register as a sex offender or have his own Wikipedia page. He's just an immature kid. Why ruin the rest of his life?
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Old 06-08-2016, 10:15 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,876 posts, read 102,269,915 times
Reputation: 32945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akonyo View Post
This incident is partially the victim's fault for putting herself in this situation to begin with. It's hard to deny that.

However, I do believe that the perpetrator (who was proven to not have committed rape) was primarily to blame.

Still though, I don't believe that he should have to register as a sex offender or have his own Wikipedia page. He's just an immature kid. Why ruin the rest of his life?
Oh, no it's not hard to deny that. Her getting drunk did not give him the permission to sexually assault her.

What he did was despicable. There's no other word for it.
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Old 06-08-2016, 10:21 PM
 
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
1,384 posts, read 811,047 times
Reputation: 1635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Oh, no it's not hard to deny that. Her getting drunk did not give him the permission to sexually assault her.

What he did was despicable. There's no other word for it.
She chose to get too drunk and then passed out in an alleyway. Bad decisions lead to bad consequences. Simple as that. Life lesson for them both.
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Old 06-08-2016, 11:14 PM
 
32,058 posts, read 16,493,051 times
Reputation: 17189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akonyo View Post
Disagreeing with the groupthink does not make me "a pretty horrible person".
Implying that the victim somehow deserved to "learn a lesson" does. You can call the close-to-universal condemnation of rape "groupthink" if that makes you feel all special and unique, but I stand by the characterization.
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Old 06-08-2016, 11:54 PM
 
Location: NYC
1,788 posts, read 1,966,002 times
Reputation: 3424
Since when is getting drunk a permission for rape?

You see a girl passed out in a alleyway, and your first thoughts are to undress her and finger her?

You people are weirdos.
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Old 06-09-2016, 04:28 AM
 
2,726 posts, read 707,298 times
Reputation: 7004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akonyo View Post
She chose to get too drunk and then passed out in an alleyway. Bad decisions lead to bad consequences. Simple as that. Life lesson for them both.
It's 100% not her fault, but her choosing to get so drunk did preclude her from making good decisions---like she could have consensual sex with him or someone else if she hadn't passed out and then truly regretted it the next day, if she could have remembered). I believe she has a boyfriend, so this could have ended the relationship if she had confessed.

I also raise an eyebrow with her account of waking up covered in pine straw and being bruised. This would have been the case had she been assaulted or not. The implication seems to be that the bruising and pine straw were his fault. I don't think he pushed her down---she fell and then passed out. He's a horrible person, but I'm not sure he physically assaulted her by pushing her down or restraining her.

And if she and her sister were getting so drunk, how were they going to drive home? Chances are they would have---possible they would have called for an Uber/cab, etc., but again, decision making isn't usually so good with that much drinking. Aside from how she or sister could have permanently injured/killed themselves driving home, what about the other, innocent people on the road? I guess maybe they wouldn't have left for a while since she was passed out, but what if she hadn't passed out?
Please understand: I am not blaming the victim, but I am pointing out that her decision to drink so much could have had dire consequences for other people (not just Brock and his family---I could care less about them).
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Old 06-09-2016, 05:12 AM
 
369 posts, read 257,339 times
Reputation: 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
How would you know?

So I'm walking down the street one day and come across someone who's unconscious by the side of the road. How do I know whether or not it's more acceptable to rape that person or not without being medically trained? You can smell the booze? Ever smelled someone in a hyperglycemic coma, it can easily be mistaken for booze.
A woman who drinks incessantly to the point of passing out, is intentionally putting herself in grave danger. She is assuming that someone will have her best interest, when she should have enough sense to keep herself protected, by remaining cognizant of her surroundings. I simply do not understand why anyone would believe it's a good idea to drink themselves into a stupor.

[quote]
The default behavior should be to have the utmost respect for people's being. It makes it easier and avoids mistakes where people rape women having medical emergencies by accident thinking they're just drunk.
[quote]
That's true, it SHOULD be the case, but unfortunately, we know it's usually not the case, so common sense dictates that one has to protect themselves, by remaining alert.

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If you think that getting drunk while surrounded by strangers is the worst thing one can do, you've had a sheltered life, it's not even close.
I do think it's a bad idea, because when you are in a strange environment around people whom you do not know, you should be guarded.
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Old 06-09-2016, 05:20 AM
 
369 posts, read 257,339 times
Reputation: 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by jade408 View Post
The problem with the logic of don't get drunk, don't be in a vulnerable place etc etc is that it doesn't explain how someone who does all the right things gets raped. So based on your logic, what should I have told the family friend who got raped at age 13 walking home from school in the afternoon. Don't walk home from school or you'll get raped? What about the friend who was raped at a party by someone she trusted: don't trust anyone? This logic doesn't hold up at all.
I simply don't understand why people insist on drinking. Alcohol is a very serious drug. Essentially, every time you drink, you are consuming poison. Just avoid it, and remain cognizant.

Chances are, if you remain alert and surround yourself with other people who are not drinking or using drugs, you substantially reduce your chances of being the victim of rape. This doesn't mean that it won't ever happen, it just means that it's less likely to happen to you.

Typically, date rape occurs when people are drunk and lose their inhibitions. They may interpret your actions, as coming onto them, even if you clearly say no. This is why it is best to remain sober.
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