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Old 06-07-2016, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Inland Northwest
596 posts, read 317,527 times
Reputation: 816

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He certainly said a lot of things back in the day that if they were said today would get someone pilloried. It was a different time back then, so I may read a lot of quotes from him and think...well that's certainly racist. It doesn't really change the fact the many people worship the man. I may not, but I've not no quarrel with people who do.


Just so everyone is aware, you can like someone even though they say come cringey stuff from time to time, it doesn't mean you like everything they say or even support everything they say. If we want people to take our heroes in totality and not take things out of context, then perhaps the best thing we can do is exhibit that behavior towards their heroes. Right?
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Old 06-07-2016, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
32,978 posts, read 19,952,237 times
Reputation: 12872
His way of never giving up when the world's dragging you down is very admirable. He tells all the Athletes in the world that it is okay to think about winning. He carried himself with a little bit of attitude (not arrogance) , and that is mad sex appeal no one can really explain.

A good man is not really a perfect man. But I believe he tried his best to make the world a better place.

In term of Vietnam, well, at least he paid his price.
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Old 06-07-2016, 11:17 AM
 
Location: SC
8,774 posts, read 5,608,950 times
Reputation: 12766
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
He was a complicated and conflicted man.

His country forced him into his beliefs by their treatment of him and his people. I'm sure that he'd have been a lot more popular with his detractors if he'd just remained a mealy mouthed kneegrow, but that wasn't his style.

The man is my hero. I don't care what anyone says about him.
I always discount (to the point of ignoring) those who question a Black man circa 1965 about his supposed racism.

Given the culture and legal system of inequities erected by whites that was FORCED ON all black people is it any wonder that statements like "all white people are devils" emerge? To many blacks of the time there was little evidence that white people were not devils as the majority of whites stood mute while the worst of them committed every atrocity they could and did get away with. It actually surprises me that ALL black men, women, and children did not think all whites were devils.

People who try to foist these BS accusations and call out the racism of a black man of those times are relying on the fact that most of the current audience were not there to witness and understand just how bad things were for blacks in the sixties and prior to that - especially in the south where Ali was born and raised. Many of the younger people today are under the ludicrous and oversimplified impression that racism back then meant not much more than that a black person probably couldn't get a loan - or find a good apartment. But there are many of us here who experienced it and can call out these lies for what they are - even though we did not even experience the worst of it.

Anyone who listened to Ali over the years would know that even though he never denied that quote, he also knew that he was generalizing and that there were many good white people around - but he was not going to stand around waiting to see which in the crowd approaching him meant him harm and which didn't. To further quote Ali...

"There are many white people who mean right and in their hearts wanna do right. If 10,000 snakes were coming down that aisle now, and I had a door that I could shut, and in that 10,000, 1,000 meant right, 1,000 rattlesnakes didn’t want to bite me, I knew they were good... Should I let all these rattlesnakes come down, hoping that that thousand get together and form a shield? Or should I just close the door and stay safe?"

In my eyes, a white person who would criticize a black man for "his" racism in any time period from the birth of the nation (pun intended) to the mid sixties have no moral standing from which to speak. He has intentionally blinded himself his own horrible physical and political racist acts of rape, lynching, castrations, beatings, torture, unjust jailing, illegal and sanctioned murders while pointing out what some black man "said." There is no comparison.
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Old 06-07-2016, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Georgia
3,817 posts, read 1,401,668 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windowtreatments View Post
It seems the media is trying to white wash Ali's past.

1. A racist that believed interracial marriages are not natural.

“A black man should be killed if he's messing with a white woman.”


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7Ka40KovVo


2. A draft dodger--basically a coward!


3. Believed that women's only purpose in life was to bare children


4. Anti-sematic a complete jew hater.


5. Abandon his only natural born son.


6. Multiple extramarital affairs


IMHO...I think he was a horrible human being.
I'm glad to see that you are not judgemental! If all your "sins" were posted for the world to see- would you be as pretty as ALI?
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Old 06-07-2016, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
32,978 posts, read 19,952,237 times
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Forget John Kerry and his "Vietnam Veterans Against the War" group. The vast majority of veterans against the war in Vietnam did not throw their medals away, or make false testimony about the actions of their comrades. Most of them were ordinary grunts who realized as most thinking Americans did by 1970 that the war could not be won in any conventional way and it was time to make peace and bring the soldiers home.

Ali paid a price for what he believed strongly. Like it or not, he paid his price. There are some key differences between anti war folks and anti military folks. So there are fundamental differences between ali and losers like Fonda. In my opinion.
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Old 06-07-2016, 11:43 AM
 
29,597 posts, read 16,342,548 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
The government did not want us to win. We were held back. As much as I disliked Nixon, at least he got us out of there,
You want to talk about winning when we should have never been there? It was a bull**** war, got a bunch of our troops and their civilians killed. Too bad more didn't do what Ali did.
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Old 06-07-2016, 11:45 AM
 
13,068 posts, read 4,442,456 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfieBoy View Post
That right? Then you must REALLY hate George "MIA" Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Trump and 99% of the GOP that were eligible for serving in Vietnam but used lame medical or family excuses to not serve. Poor Donald! He so-called "says" he had a "bad foot" and so he couldn't possibly fight. I imagine it was a very traumatic injury. Funny thing. He was recently asked by a reporter for the NY Post which foot was injured. Trump couldn't remember. How's that for coward? But, that's how they roll in right wingnut land!

As to Ali, he paid a price for refusing to serve, but you probably don't know anything about history wso this is educational for you:



He paid dearly -- he was banned for his work, boxing. What price did Orange Man pay? None.
You forgot Bill Clinton
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Old 06-07-2016, 12:20 PM
 
17,497 posts, read 10,620,063 times
Reputation: 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
He was a complicated and conflicted man.
Not really, if one reads his messages and viewpoints he knew where he stood, it was others having the problem with where he stood. After a lifetime of personal experience he also realized his faults........haven't we all.

Quote:
His country forced him into his beliefs by their treatment of him and his people. I'm sure that he'd have been a lot more popular with his detractors if he'd just remained a mealy mouthed kneegrow, but that wasn't his style.
The government was drafting ALL people, just as they did my dad, my uncles and other members of my family. They were not just drafting blacks into serving, I hope you actually know this! Ali's belief was the people in that country did nothing to him. Nice try, trying to make it look like Ali connected this to slavery.......

Quote:
The man is my hero. I don't care what anyone says about him.
I find this an interesting quote from you! Most people who have heroes tend to be somewhat like that person....... Let me show you a few things about your hero.........
Muhammad Ali Backed Reagan and Many Other Republicans
In his eye-opening book, “Sucker Punch: The Hard Left Hook That Dazed Ali and Killed King’s Dream,”


He startled many longtime fans in 1984 by endorsing President Ronald Reagan for re-election. Ali also backed friend and former New Mexico Gov. David Cargo in a losing race for Congress in 1986, proclaiming Republican Cargo was "the right white." He also stumped for South Carolina’s conservative former State GOP Chairman Van Hipp for Congress in 1994 and helped Republican Utah Sen. Orrin Hatch win re-election in 1988.

"I like Orrin," Ali told reporters in 1988, "He's a nice fella. He's a capable man and he's an honest man. And he fights for what he believes in." Ali said he had been particularly moved the year before watching Hatch in the televised Iran-Contra hearings and in the hearings on Robert Bork’s confirmation to the Supreme Court.

But it was "The Champ's" support of Reagan in '84 that made the most headlines. Having backed Rev. Jesse Jackson in his unsuccessful bid for the Democratic presidential nomination, Ali announced in October of that year that he was switching his support to Republican Reagan.

"He's keeping God in schools and that's enough," explained Ali, who was later joined by fellow past heavyweight champions Joe Frazier and Floyd Patterson in endorsing Reagan.


commentators.com
Muhammad Ali was changing in ways that few people saw or chose to see. He traces his hour of enlightenment to “around 1983.” It was only then that he became a “true believer.” Always more honest than the mythmakers around him, Ali sheds needed light here on his own reality. Before this moment, he confesses to biographer Tom Hauser, “I thought I was a true believer, but I wasn’t. I fit my religion to do what I wanted. I did things that were wrong, and chased women all the time.”


This is a stunning admission. It should inform the rest of the Hauser biography and all Ali biographies. Told honestly, these accounts should read like the “Confessions of St. Augustine” or the “Autobiography of Malcolm X” or even the George Foreman story. They should tell a story of a life that was largely squandered on race hatred and sexual exploitation until the protagonist is blinded by the light on his own personal road to Damascus.


“I conquered the world, and it didn’t bring me true happiness,” Ali admits. “The only true satisfaction comes from honoring and worshipping God.” The guardians of Ali’s myth, however, can write no such story. To do so, they would have to concede that Ali’s opposition to war was no more principled than his stance on extramarital sex. Were they to question his value system, they would have to question their own. Few among them were as willing as Ali to do so.


His chroniclers prefer to write his story as one of seamless virtue. In the retelling, the moment of self-awareness comes in the early 1960s and enlightens all that happens thereafter. Any subsequent incidents that might challenge the myth of the proud, black, independent Muslim hero are typically edited down to the nub or ignored. In 1965, of course, Ali put his still embryonic myth to the test by betraying Malcolm X. In 1984, he put his mature myth to an even more severe test when he publicly supported Ronald Reagan and even attended the Republican National Convention.


This should not have come as a shock. A majority of voters in 49 states – Massachusetts and New York included – voted for Ronald Reagan in 1984. An overwhelming majority of those Americans, like Ali, who both worshiped God and paid high taxes supported Reagan. In his devotion to God and in his avoidance of drink and drugs and even dance, Ali could have fit right in with the “Moral Majority.”

At a Fourth of July celebration in Washington, for instance, Ali publicly scolded Louis Farrakhan for an ongoing series of threats and insults against Jews. “What he teaches is not at all what we believe in,” said Ali boldly. “We say he represents the time of our struggle in the dark and a time of confusion in us and we don’t want to be associated with that at all.”
Talk about a man making a statement..........Amen!

"Hating people because of their color is wrong. And it doesn't matter which color does the hating. It's just plain wrong." ~Muhammad Ali

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinm View Post
He converted to Islam ( racist Louis Farrakan type ) and changed his name.
From my research he was this kind of Muslim, Sufism - ReligionFacts which, is rejected by many muslims.


I would say his faith was the combination of Christ kindness, mixed with;
The core principles of Sufism are tawakkul (absolute trust in God) and tawhid (the truth that there is no deity but God). Tawhid is rich in meaning for mystics: it has been interpreted by some as meaning that nothing truly exists but God or that nature and God are but two aspects of the same reality.
The love of God for man and the love of man for God are also very central to Sufism, and are the subjects of most Islamic mystical poetry and hymns.



"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.”~ Muhammad Ali
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Old 06-07-2016, 12:24 PM
 
Location: The South
5,148 posts, read 3,592,881 times
Reputation: 7730
Number 2.
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Old 06-07-2016, 01:16 PM
 
15,300 posts, read 7,819,224 times
Reputation: 7930
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3~Shepherds View Post

The government was drafting ALL people, just as they did my dad, my uncles and other members of my family. They were not just drafting blacks into serving, I hope you actually know this! Ali's belief was the people in that country did nothing to him. Nice try, trying to make it look like Ali connected this to slavery.......

On this portion of your quote, I just want to point out that the government was not really drafting ALL people for the Vietnam war. They drafted primarily working class and lower people. This meant that more blacks, latinos, and poor whites were drafted versus those in middle class and above households.

Also, the early years of the war did see more blacks in particular being drafted versus whites, which many felt was discriminatory.
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