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Ali was a good man but he had a cruel streak earlier on. Referring to Joe Frazier as a gorilla. Supposedly Frazier resented that to the very end.
I remember that. He also called Joe Frazier an Uncle Tom. That was obviously very early in Ali's career and even later on in life Joe Frazier still was hurt by that. George Foreman's take on that was that some people can't take statements like that(joking or not) and he didn't think Ali was out to intentionally be mean. Either way it was entertaining to watch Ali in the ring and one of the truly best boxers of all time.
He was like Jane Fonda but could box. He wasn't a big deal. No one took him serious. I thought he was entertaining.
Good point: The times turned Ali into a very valuable asset, and by the time of his rise, the abuses within the "fight game" had been very well documented by examples such as Jersey Joe Walcott and Beau Jack.
I think we can agree that Ali really didn't have all that much as say in what happened to him in the years after 1965. and when a couple of other examples (Malcolm X -- the vast majority of attention focused upon him after he was dead and had no say at all in things, and Joe Louis -- possibly the first example of a heavyweight champion managed for the media) are added to the equation, it's a blessing that the man was able to retain as much dignity in later life as was the case.
He was a man who, like most of us, mellowed with age -- and that was enough.
ITA with the above. On his supposed anti-Semitism, I have never read or heard him say anything negative in regards to Jews. I feel that the OP is basing their own personal belief of Ali being an anti-semite due to his original affiliation with the NOI. Ali left NOI like many did after the death of Malcolm X and subscribed to a more pure version of Islam which did not include a hatred of Jews.
On Ali's marriages/women, many men are and were the same. Many women are the same as well. I don't think his personal romantic/intimate relationships are any of our business. I do know that the main pictures that I have seen of Ali since his death that have garnered the most emotion from me, are the ones of him with his children, especially when they were babies. They are beautiful pictures and I have heard many of his daughters especially speak of him as a loving, caring father.
The bold was my only negative view of Ali - that he called Frazier both a gorilla and an "Uncle Tom."
Frazier was neither and Ali did apologize to Frazier multiple times for that. He admitted he did it for publicity/media attention and that it had a negative impact on Frazier. Frazier did finally accept his apology before he died but I do feel that was a dirty thing to do to Joe Frazer as Ali, like today was VERY popular and people believed the things he said at face value and it ruined Joe's reputation in a way and made him bitter.
On Ali's life in general, I think he was a great man. I feel as a black man he took a mighty stance and for good reason in not going to Vietnam and in not trying to run away from the consequences. Like he did in the ring, he fought to ensure a victory in the courts and in his personal life at that time, something that shows true grit.
It's hard to think of Ali without thinking of Frazier too. The "Thrilla in Manila" was probably the greatest fight of all time. And both fighters took shots that did lasting damage.
He's black, became a member of a highly racist black power religion, not Christian, and not Republican so as far as the media is concerned, he's as good as a God (Allah).
I was amused by him and agreed the Vietnam War was no business of ours and every man needs to make his own decisions about religion or no religion...so I didn't have a problem with him.
As a Vietnam vet, I wish I had the courage to say no and stay out of that horrible war instead of fighting. We did not belong there. We lost too many Americans for nothing.
He gave up millions of dollars and lost 3 years of his career by refusing to go to Vietnam, he could have spent 5 years in jail for his convictions if not for the supreme court. I would not say that he was a coward.
He wasn't the perfect human being but he had many good qualities.
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I don't see how a kid who wins a gold medal representing his country yet couldn't sit at a counter where he chose to have a sandwich in his country for no other reason than the color of his skin wouldn't develop some thoughts on racism.
As a Vietnam vet, I wish I had the courage to say no and stay out of that horrible war instead of fighting. We did not belong there. We lost too many Americans for nothing.
One thing you did accomplish..waking the average citizen up to question any war that is forced on them by the government. Vietnam will always be a lesson learned.
That accomplished more than some wars that have been fought throughout history and may save lives in the long run.
I remember asking my Dad during the War if we would win. He said "I don't know". I asked him if we could win. He said "we could win in a day if we wanted to"
Even at 8 years old I thought that was very strange. Of course we could have won the war. We could have geared up a million soldiers and obliterated them. Why didn't we?
I don't see how a kid who wins a gold medal representing his country yet couldn't sit at a counter where he chose to have a sandwich in his country wouldn't develop some thoughts on racism.
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger
One thing you did accomplish..waking the average citizen up to question any war that is forced on them by the government. Vietnam will always be a lesson learned.
I look at places like Iraq and wonder if we learned anything at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger
That accomplished more than some wars that have been fought throughout history and may save lives in the long run.
I remember asking my Dad during the War if we would win. He said "I don't know". I asked him if we could win. He said "we could win in a day if we wanted to"
Even at 8 years old I thought that was very strange. Of course we could have won the war. We could have geared up a million soldiers and obliterated them. Why didn't we?
BS politics.
There was nothing to win there and there never is when you attempt fighting someone else's battle.
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