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Dunno, a lot of Republicans have got on board with this nonsense. Its massive theatre though, and a massive waste of time and effort. Lets say they pass this, it will never pass constitutional muster with the courts.
Judge "So let me get this straight, you want to make it illegal for people to exercise their constitutional rights just because someone somewhere puts them on a list with no real judicial oversight?"
Yeah, not going to fly, and these people must know it. This is their job after all. Nonsense like this is how you get a single digit approval rating.
Don't be surprised at what the courts will or won't uphold.
We cannot blindly trust in the courts for the protection of our rights. They have proven they are unworthy of that trust time and time again.
You think not? If by some freak of the ballot box, another bogus assault weapon ban or actual mandated turn-in decree were to become law, you would see what would happen pretty quick.
My guess is nothing would happen....
First of all, it didn't happen the first time we had an AWB. Second of all, there are just too many uninformed, intellectually bankrupt sheep among us, who are all too eager to sacrifice their civil liberties at the alter in exchange for a false sense of security, to actually do anything.
Indeed. Calling up the militia to suppress insurrection is an enumerated power of congress.
Correct....
Insurrection against a duly elected government is highly illegal. That's why the founders never said you could take up arms against a legitimate government. However, if that government were to betray it's constituents, the founders had a very different view.
You can't get the whole picture if you partake only in a selective reading.
Congratulations! You are now on the DHS Domestic Watch list along with thousands of other law abided, constitutional citizens. Don't worry, DHS will not waste their time and resources on people like the Orlando attacker or the Bernardino attacker. Because DHS believes the biggest threat to America is extreme right wingers. Not Islamic Terrorists.
rebellion is specifically listed in the constitution as something you cannot do.
This entire thread reminds me of how much I despise debating about what the Constitution means or doesn't mean. Here is the truth, the Constitution means whatever the people and their representatives want it to mean, period.
As a general rule, people believe whatever they want to believe. And this applies to everything from the Constitution, to immigration, to climate-change, to guns, to gay-marriage, to Islam, to abortion, to everything else.
The idea that the average American is some kind of Constitutional scholar, or that he could ever weigh ideas impartially, is downright absurd. The average American is a moron.
Here are three important quotes to think about....
"The moment a person forms a theory, his imagination sees in every object only the traits which favor that theory." - Thomas Jefferson
"Any government, that is its own judge of, and determines authoritatively for the people, what are its own powers over the people, is an absolute government of course. It has all the powers that it chooses to exercise. There is no other or at least no more accurate definition of a despotism than this." - Lysander Spooner
"Whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain – that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist. - Lysander Spooner
Let us remember one last thing, the precedent and logic in the Declaration of Independence, would give a near-universal right of the people to throw off almost any government, for any perceived abuse of power, or even in the case that it fails to provide ample security.
The issue here, is that the said government is unlikely to let them go without a fight. And the truth is, men have never come together, except by force and/or necessity. If secession was ever allowed as a principle, every government on Earth would collapse.
This entire thread reminds me of how much I despise debating about what the Constitution means or doesn't mean. Here is the truth, the Constitution means whatever the people and their representatives want it to mean, period.
In practice, you are right. That's about what it amounts to. Although I certainly hope you aren't endorsing that method of determining the meaning of the Constitution. For if that's the case, under a so-called "living Constitution", a Constitutional guarantee is no guarantee at all.
Quote:
As a general rule, people believe whatever they want to believe. And this applies to everything from the Constitution, to immigration, to climate-change, to guns, to gay-marriage, to Islam, to abortion, to everything else.
That's certainly true, but let's not pretend, on Second Amendment issues for example, that the collective rights interpretation, which has been invented out of whole cloth, is just as valid and equal to the individual rights interpretation, for which there exists much evidence, some of which I've posted here.
Quote:
The idea that the average American is some kind of Constitutional scholar, or that he could ever weigh ideas impartially, is downright absurd. The average American is a moron.
When a large body of historical context exists on a matter, one not need to be a Constitutional scholar to arrive at an informed decision.
Quote:
"The moment a person forms a theory, his imagination sees in every object only the traits which favor that theory." - Thomas Jefferson
Undoubtedly true. I can't speak for others, but in my case, I based my theory on the evidence, I didn't base the evidence on my theory.
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Let us remember one last thing, the precedent and logic in the Declaration of Independence, would give a near-universal right of the people to throw off almost any government, for any perceived abuse of power, or even in the case that it fails to provide ample security.
Not true...
"""Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security"""
"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed[/b]. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."
I think you are mistaken my friend. Not only are those not the original words of Thomas Jefferson, but you are pretending as if the words used have only one meaning.
What exactly is a light and transient cause? And for that matter, what is a long train of abuses and usurpations? What exactly is absolute despotism(Jefferson actually said "arbitrary power" in his original draft)?
Have the acts of our government over a long period of time, merely been light and transient? Has our Constitution, and thus, our people, not seen a rather long train of abuses and usurpations? All pursuing the same object, which has reduced us to arbitrary power(executive orders, activist Supreme Court justices, etc)?
I mean, wouldn't most of the founders be appalled at how much power has been consolidated in Washington D.C.?
In truth, the people of this country had the right to throw off our government a very long time ago, at least, according to Jefferson. But of course, the last time they tried, they failed, because Lincoln would have killed everyone in the name of "saving our glorious union".
So it is pointless to discuss what is a light and transient cause, or what is a worthy cause, because it doesn't actually matter. What government on Earth hasn't abused its power? What government on Earth doesn't wield arbitrary power, far beyond what its founding documents intended?
Men have never come together except by force and/or necessity. Most Americans hate each other. If secession was ever allowed on the principles set forth in the Declaration of Independence, all governments would collapse, period.
Here is another good quote for you to read... Don't be fooled...
"All governments, the worst on earth, and the most tyrannical on earth, are free governments to that portion of the people who voluntarily support them." - Lysander Spooner
I think you are mistaken my friend. Not only are those not the original words of Thomas Jefferson, but you are pretending as if the words used have only one meaning.
What exactly is a light and transient cause? And for that matter, what is a long train of abuses and usurpations? What exactly is absolute despotism(Jefferson actually said "arbitrary power" in his original draft)?
Have the acts of our government over a long period of time, merely been light and transient? Has our Constitution, and thus, our people, not seen a rather long train of abuses and usurpations? All pursuing the same object, which has reduced us to arbitrary power(executive orders, activist Supreme Court justices, etc)?
I mean, wouldn't most of the founders be appalled at how much power has been consolidated in Washington D.C.?
In truth, the people of this country had the right to throw off our government a very long time ago, at least, according to Jefferson. But of course, the last time they tried, they failed, because Lincoln would have killed everyone in the name of "saving our glorious union".
So it is pointless to discuss what is a light and transient cause, or what is a worthy cause, because it doesn't actually matter. What government on Earth hasn't abused its power? What government on Earth doesn't wield arbitrary power, far beyond what its founding documents intended?
Men have never come together except by force and/or necessity. Most Americans hate each other. If secession was ever allowed on the principles set forth in the Declaration of Independence, all governments would collapse, period.
Well, as Jefferson himself said, most men are disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable...
You people really need an assault rifle to feel safe at home? Really? Maybe it's time to talk to a professional!
" Maybe it's time to talk to a professional!"
I suggest you take your OWN advice.
They are NOT "assault rifles".
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