Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-19-2016, 06:13 PM
 
56,989 posts, read 35,122,003 times
Reputation: 18824

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stymie13 View Post
Vietnam could have been won. Historically it shouldn't. Joke folly. Either win Korea or don't go at all.

Caveat: everyone cites the un, it was a un mission.

The academic part of humanism really is why people complain about everything in universities now.
Nonsense. If we could've won Vietnam, we would've. We didn't because we couldn't.

The after the fact carping is a load of bull. I'm sick of hearing it. Our hands were tied, they wouldn't let us fight, it was the politicians fault, it was the United Nations' fault, we got sold out by Puff the Magic Dragon, we didn't have enough Fairy dust, and on and on and on...

We lost to a superior Army that was nowhere near as well armed as we were. They fought for something. We fought for nothing.

Give them their props and cool it with the revisionism.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-19-2016, 06:16 PM
 
Location: louisville
4,754 posts, read 2,730,157 times
Reputation: 1721
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Nonsense. If we could've won Vietnam, we would've. We didn't because we couldn't.

The after the fact carping is a load of bull. I'm sick of hearing it. Our hands were tied, they wouldn't let us fight, it was the politicians fault, it was the United Nations' fault, we got sold out by Puff the Magic Dragon, we didn't have enough Fairy dust, and on and on and on...

We lost to a superior Army that was nowhere near as well armed as we were. They fought for something. We fought for nothing.

Give them their props and cool it with the revisionism.
Quote accurately or don't:

Korea was the un

Vietnam was incrementalism. We will never know. They are tough.

Don't conflate
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-19-2016, 07:55 PM
 
56,989 posts, read 35,122,003 times
Reputation: 18824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stymie13 View Post
Quote accurately or don't:

Korea was the un

Vietnam was incrementalism. We will never know. They are tough.

Don't conflate
We will never know? Speak for yourself. I already know.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-19-2016, 09:21 PM
 
20,524 posts, read 15,867,636 times
Reputation: 5943
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Nonsense. If we could've won Vietnam, we would've. We didn't because we couldn't.

The after the fact carping is a load of bull. I'm sick of hearing it. Our hands were tied, they wouldn't let us fight, it was the politicians fault, it was the United Nations' fault, we got sold out by Puff the Magic Dragon, we didn't have enough Fairy dust, and on and on and on...

We lost to a superior Army that was nowhere near as well armed as we were. They fought for something. We fought for nothing.

Give them their props and cool it with the revisionism.
IF the DC fools really wanted to win in Vietnam; it WAS possible IMHO but, many millions of Vietnamese people would've had to be killed 1st, then we'd be stuck cleaning up the mess. That war was a bad deal; especially for the young dudes drafted and, NOT allowed to fight from what a bunch of "Nam" vets told me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-20-2016, 12:45 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
27,044 posts, read 13,295,225 times
Reputation: 19277
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
Was there some reason you posted these?
The SNP are no longer a majority Government in Scotland, and have lost ground. Whilst the Scottish Tories have gained ground. This swing to the Tories and the fact Scotland voted No does not suggest the West is somehow collapsing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-20-2016, 03:00 AM
 
Location: SoCal
20,160 posts, read 12,713,073 times
Reputation: 16993
Collapsing in term of what?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-20-2016, 05:09 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,856 posts, read 8,181,243 times
Reputation: 4590
"Modern states have reached precisely this point. Christianity serves them only as a pretext or a phrase or as a means of deceiving the idle mob, for they pursue goals which have nothing to do with religious sentiments. The great statesmen of our days, the Palmerstons, the Muravievs, the Cavours, the Bismarcks, the Napoleons, had a good laugh when people took their religious pronouncements seriously. They laughed harder when people attributed humanitarian sentiments, considerations, and intentions to them, but they never made the mistake of treating these ideas in public as so much nonsense. Just what remains to constitute their morality? The interest of the State, and nothing else. From this point of view, which, incidentally, with very few exceptions, has been that of the statesmen, the strong men of all times and of all countries from this point of view, I say, whatever conduces to the preservation, the grandeur and the power of the State, no matter how sacrilegious or morally revolting it may seem, that is the good. And conversely, whatever opposes the State's interests, no matter how holy or just otherwise, that is evil. Such is the secular morality and practice of every State." - Mikhail Bakunin, 1873


The west isn't collapsing. The whole world is just globalizing/internationalizing. What that really means, is multinational corporations are taking control of markets, resources, and assets, all over the world. American finance has its tentacles spread-out around the world. Half the companies in developing countries are owned by foreigners, mainly western firms.

New York investors are putting their money everywhere.

The developing parts of the world, borrow money from the IMF or the world bank, or some other western bank, then use that money to hire western construction companies to build dams, and bridges, and power plants, and cell phone networks. As well as to buy western technology, and military hardware. It is a win-win.

This makes developing nations dependent on western nations, and heavily in-debt, which gives America and its western partners control over them. We could at any time collapse their economies, finance their enemies, or otherwise overthrow them. They must do what we demand, or else.


The problem is, while we certainly are able to manipulate these poor, developing countries, we also become dependent on them as well. America's economy would collapse without foreign resources, and foreign trade. Which forces America to constantly intervene in the internal affairs of resource-rich countries, or to otherwise stabilize the governments of our trading partners.


This doesn't even take into consideration how finance, central banks, and fiat currencies, are used to manipulate capital markets to the advantage of Western governments, artificially creating real-estate and stock-market bubbles, and creating trillions of "fictitious capital" through speculation, which can then be used to buy up foreign assets. Giving multinational firms even more control over developing nations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictitious_capital

This is why our government will do absolutely anything to save our financial sector, and will do everything to keep these asset bubbles inflated.


But since all the world's governments are in competition with each other, and all of them are using the same economic model, they are forced to gain a competitive-advantage any way they can, including exploiting cheap labor wherever they can find it, as well as bringing in foreign capital for their real-estate and stock-markets, tourism, luxuries, technology, etc.


This is the inevitable outcome of political capitalism. A capitalist has no nation, he has no religion, he has no people. And a secular government has no morality, no culture, no values. Whatever is happening in America, or France, or Germany, will necessarily spread everywhere in the world, unless something comes along to destroy this system.

Last edited by Redshadowz; 06-20-2016 at 05:18 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-20-2016, 05:16 AM
 
58,749 posts, read 27,092,933 times
Reputation: 14186
Quote:
Originally Posted by War Beagle View Post
I would argue that the entire West is in a state of decline, if not outright collapse. Evidence for this is legion. Separatist movements in Catalonia and Scotland, Brexit, and the rise of nationalist candidates in the US, UK, France, the Netherlands, Austria, Italy, Germany and elsewhere. More generally, there is a very low level of confidence in the political and economic systems throughout the Western countries?

Obviously, there are many factors at play. However, I believe that the single largest reason for the collapse of the West is relatively simple: politicians in the West no longer represent the interests of their constituents. Representative governance is a core fundamental of Western society. But who is represented when millions of Islamic refugees are let into Germany? Not the average German. Who is represented when illegal immigrants are allowed into the US to take all of the non-skilled jobs? Who is represented when the US government makes unfavorable trade deals or allows economic competitors to manipulate their currency? Not the average US voter.

The Western elites have perverted the political narrative into one where it is now considered xenophobic, racist, nationalist or bigoted when politicians represent the interests of the majority. Consequently, the average citizen has little to no confidence in the political and economic systems. I believe that is one of the main reasons the West is collapsing.
" Why is the West collapsing?"

Political Correctness!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-20-2016, 05:51 AM
 
5,438 posts, read 5,929,081 times
Reputation: 1134
Sin
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-20-2016, 06:07 AM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,434,858 times
Reputation: 16962
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
What a wonderful thread.

Victory in Vietnam. Sure after we lose half a million Americans and destroy a good part of China...see Korea. Does someone really want to fight China in a war on the Asian main land? That is why Viet Nam was always absurd.

And now the new English Monarch is going to come to Canada and kick butt? Really?

Well part of the west is decaying...some of the minds on CD
Ssssssh! They've got another typical whinefest going so all those things they're ashamed of will feature prominently. I think it's a subconscious reation to the prospect of being governed by yet another Koch Brothers appointee or a retarded idiot orangutan that crashed their Teaparty.

My choice is a Yeungling and a bag of crinkle chips.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:15 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top