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Just reading through the first four pages of this thread left me with elevated blood pressure.
The thought that this mandate would represent "big government" to so many is precisely the problem with (right wing) framing of collective-interest movements. This would be coming from the people -- the WORKERS -- who collectively demand better conditions of work. The government is the MEANS because, under contemporary political structures, it is the only viable means. Ethical, collectively accountable action does not necessarily have to take hold through government; today it is done so because it is the only "legitimate" mode of resisting corporate hegemony.
I absolutely support such a mandate. It is absurd that the USA is so behind in labor issues.
Sure, who wouldn't vote for more free stuff, its human nature, the path of least resistance for maximum reward. It doesn't make it right.
Like right now, I'm sure that if you told everyone that your kitchen was full of the worlds best meals ready to eat and had piles of cash sitting there, everyone would WANT to OVERWHELMINGLY come take it all, but that also wouldn't make it right.
And its hysterical to me that you say "there is nothing to back up the idea that Americans are more financially secure in retirement than seniors in other countries" with such indignation since...well since I actually never said that. Just another instance of you having your socialist talking points loaded and ready to copy/paste regardless of if they are relevant.
But again, there are tons of websites that deal with the concept of FIRE (Financial Independence Retire Early) that prove that many Americans are successfully working towards and / or have achieved that goal.
This is a concept for people that are smart, driven, dedicated, ambitious, and arent just sitting around saying I WANT more vacation time, I WANT higher wages. They take what they have and make something for themselves through smart saving, dedication, and smart work.
There is nothing to suggest that people are less smart today than before. Yet benefits have for decades seen a decline. Thats the problem with far right libertarians. They just dont understand the concept of a society and how wealth = power (over workers and the political system). The elites who fund this libertarian agenda laugh in the face of working class folks who swallow this Ayn Rand nonsense hook, line and sinker.
The fact that you consider worker's rights "free stuff" just shows how submissive towards the elite you truly are. On the one hand, you are praising workers who dont take any vacation at all (half of all US workers) as "hard working and dedicated", but on the other hand you are mocking them as stupid and evil if they demand that their elected representatives represent their interests. The interesting thing is that your extremist agenda has always caused massive political disruptions and revolts, because it causes so much misery, crime and suffering. There is no difference between your agenda and the views held by kings and feudal warlords in the Middle Ages. Its a sociopathic agenda with no concept of a what a society is, no compassion and no empathy. I suspect that's why so many sociopaths are attracted to libertarianism even if they themselves are mere working class stiffs.
There is nothing to suggest that people are less smart today than before. Yet benefits have for decades seen a decline. Thats the problem with far right libertarians. They just dont understand the concept of a society and how wealth = power. The elites who fund this libertarian agenda laugh in the face of working class folks who swallow this Ayn Rand nonsense hook, line and sinker.
The fact that you consider worker's rights "free stuff" just shows how submissive towards the elite you truly are. On the one hand, you are praising workers who dont take any vacation at all (half of all US workers) as "hard working and dedicated", but on the other hand you are mocking them as stupid and evil if they demand that their elected representatives represent their interests. The interesting thing is that your extremist agenda has always caused massive political disruptions and revolts, because it causes so much misery, crime and suffering. There is no difference between your agenda and the views held by kings and feudal warlords in the Middle Ages. Its a sociopathic agenda with no concept of a what a society is, no compassion and no empathy. I suspect that's why so many sociopaths are attracted to libertarianism even if they themselves are mere working class stiffs.
I am surprised you were able to fit so much nonsense in one post.
There is nothing to suggest that people are less smart today than before. Yet benefits have for decades seen a decline. Thats the problem with far right libertarians. They just dont understand the concept of a society and how wealth = power. The elites who fund this libertarian agenda laugh in the face of working class folks who swallow this Ayn Rand nonsense hook, line and sinker.
The fact that you consider worker's rights "free stuff" just shows how submissive towards the elite you truly are. On the one hand, you are praising workers who dont have any vacation at all as "hard working and dedicated", but on the other hand you are mocking them as stupid and evil if they demand that their elected representatives represent their interests. The interesting thing is that your extremist agenda has always caused massive political disruptions and revolts, because it causes so much misery, crime and suffering. There is no difference between your agenda and the views held by kings and feudal warlords in the Middle Ages. Its a sociopathic agenda with no concept of a what a society is, no compassion and no empathy. I suspect that's why so many sociopaths are attracted to libertarianism.
Benefits for full-time employees are at an all-time high according to the BLS.
Furthermore, read what the government experts say about the myth of the disappearing middle class:
There is nothing to suggest that people are less smart today than before. Yet benefits have for decades seen a decline. Thats the problem with far right libertarians. They just dont understand the concept of a society and how wealth = power. The elites who fund this libertarian agenda laugh in the face of working class folks who swallow this Ayn Rand nonsense hook, line and sinker.
The fact that you consider worker's rights "free stuff" just shows how submissive towards the elite you truly are. On the one hand, you are praising workers who dont have any vacation at all as "hard working and dedicated", but on the other hand you are mocking them as stupid and evil if they demand that their elected representatives represent their interests. The interesting thing is that your extremist agenda has always caused massive political disruptions and revolts, because it causes so much misery, crime and suffering. There is no difference between your agenda and the views held by kings and feudal warlords in the Middle Ages. Let the peons suffer
Nothing you have written in red is anything that I've said, stop falsely attributing your nonsense and demagoguery to false claims about what I said.
Additionally, your grossly overreaching of calling me "submissive" as well as comparing my ideas to that of "kings and feudal warlords of the Middle Ages" is nothing more than a thinly veiled personal attack.
I'm now reminded of why I stopped replying to you once before, and will just go back to that approach since you cant have a civilized debate without lies, twisting my words, and personal attacks.
Good luck, hope you find a way to get Bernie elected.
Benefits for full-time employees are at an all-time high according to the BLS.
Meaningless nonsense when skyrocketing health care costs (as the big pharma and insurance corporations monopolize the industry and make it extremely inefficient) combined with pensions in a steep decline can be presented as all time high benefits for workers (in dollar terms).
Meaningless nonsense when skyrocketing health care costs (as the big pharma and insurance corporations monopolize the industry and make it extremely inefficient) combined with pensions in a steep decline can be presented as all time high benefits for workers (in dollar terms).
So the ACA isn't saving every family $2,000 a year? I'm not following you. The BLS shows that from 1960 to 2013 the number of hours of vacation, holiday, and sick leave has increased. While defined benefit pensions have decreased the value of 401k's has skyrocketed. Unlike a traditional pension, 401k's build generational wealth. The value of social security, which is also a benefit as it is half funded by employers has also skyrocketed.
Right there on their website is all the data you need and it shows that almost 90% of full-time workers are doing pretty well. You must be in the 10%?
So the ACA isn't saving every family $2,000 a year? I'm not following you. The BLS shows that from 1960 to 2013 the number of hours of vacation, holiday, and sick leave has increased. While defined benefit pensions have decreased the value of 401k's has skyrocketed. Unlike a traditional pension, 401k's build generational wealth. The value of social security, which is also a benefit as it is half funded by employers has also skyrocketed.
Right there on their website is all the data you need and it shows that almost 90% of full-time workers are doing pretty well. You must be in the 10%?
95% of workers in America have LAUGHABLE benefits compared to other developed countries. THAT is what we are talking about here. Your stats are meaningless when more than HALF of all workers didnt take ANY vacation days last year. People FEAR the consequences. There is a HUGE disparity of power between workers and the donor class in America today. You can deny it, but they are laughing in your face for believing them and voting for their puppets.
Hah-"The Urban Institute"-funny you resort to a self-described "DC liberal think-tank" to make your point-funded by the Rockefeller Foundation no less.
In reality our country has not had true economic growth since the early 1970's. There have been many things to conceal the true destruction of our economy including the necessity of both parents working, credit cards and debt, Fed economic bubbles and now QE.
Will negative interest rates be the next fake 'stimulus program' to keep everyone blinded and content, but even further in debt?
From WWII to the mid 1970's, 90% of stock market growth was due to GDP growth/outlook.
From the 1970's to the early 1990's, 95% of stock market growth was due to household debt/liabilities (mainly the explosion of credit cards).
From the mid 1990's to 2000, 97% of stock market growth was the tech bubble and commercial paper increases.
From 2000-2008, 94% of stock market growth was due to the housing bubble and again household debt.
From 2008 until today93% of stock market growth is due to the Federal Reserve's quantitative easing program. During the first half of 2013 the growth was even 100% attributable to QE!
Last edited by 2e1m5a; 06-22-2016 at 12:28 AM..
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