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Old 06-29-2016, 01:44 PM
 
12,270 posts, read 11,329,966 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBulletZ06 View Post
No. You need a rock that has some sort of value.
Venezuela has amazing value. It's a country of astonishing physical beauty and amazing geographical diversity. Ecotourism should be booming there...instead, easy oil profits make them prey to dictators like Chavez.
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Old 06-29-2016, 03:51 PM
 
20,724 posts, read 19,363,240 times
Reputation: 8288
Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow View Post
The inherent evil of socialism or any silly costume of collectivism is that they all require continuous and widespread aggression and violence (thus evil and immoral) against the individual to exist...other than that, I guess its okay
Well a republic is a social contract with collectivist principle. So is a stop sign. So is private property.

Have a coherent point to make? My guess is no, being steeped so deep in winger sauce.
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Old 06-29-2016, 03:59 PM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,742,256 times
Reputation: 1336
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Well a republic is a social contract with collectivist principle. So is a stop sign. So is private property.

Have a coherent point to make? My guess is no, being steeped so deep in winger sauce.
What are you talking about? Did you make some "social contract" with your neighbor granting him a right to initiate force upon you for his personal interest? That is a collectivist principle, that "people" are nothing but subject/slaves at the complete mercy of the fictional collective. (which is really just the ruling elite)

"What, then, is legislation? It is an assumption by one man, or body of men, of absolute, irresponsible dominion over all other men whom they can subject to their power. It is the assumption by one man, or body of men, of a right to subject all other men to their will and their service. It is the assumption by one man, or body of men, of a right to abolish outright all the natural rights, all the natural liberty of all other men; to make all other men their slaves; to arbitrarily dictate to all other men what they may, and may not, do; what they may, and may not, have; what they may, and may not, be. It is, in short, the assumption of a right to banish the principle of human rights, the principle of justice itself, from off the earth, and set up their own personal will, pleasure, and interest in its place. All this, and nothing less, is involved in the very idea that there can be any such thing as human legislation that is obligatory upon those upon whom it is imposed."

Evil is evil...and collectivism in any costume is a silly attempt to make the slavers appear "noble" to their slaves...
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Old 06-29-2016, 04:10 PM
 
20,724 posts, read 19,363,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverBulletZ06 View Post
No. You need a rock that has some sort of value.
Like a diamond?

Quote:
And socialism has failed every time.
And socialism is what exactly?


Quote:
The only times socialism doesn't fail is when it allows for capitalist culture and even then the heavy taxes remove a lot of innovation.
You know what socialism really is? Its a right winger rubber stamping a failed stated "socialist".


what's Saudi Arabia, capitalist? What's Norway, capitalist? What's Mexico, successful? What's China?


What ruined every state before "socialism" that has not even been around for 200 years? Was it socialism that destroyed Rome.


If you want to take a bar bell approach to what goes into a nation by all means come up with crappy results and enjoy. I'd prefer to look at the rentierism, dictatorialism culture and resources etc.


dddaaadidya know extended families are kinda ya know social? ddiididya know humans are social animals?

People make social contracts for cooperation all the time. However cooperation only really works when there is direct competition to the cooperative. Sports teams cooperate against a competitive coop. A small state like Finland with its externalized economy does not suffer the ill effects of its "socialism" because it has lots of external exposure.


If the US were more like 50 sovereign socialist states like Finland , there would be 49 other states competing with the coop. Bad socialist states would lose to good ones. There would be a lot more competition than we have now. That's for sure.
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Old 06-29-2016, 04:20 PM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,742,256 times
Reputation: 1336
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
dddaaadidya know extended families are kinda ya know social? ddiididya know humans are social animals?

People make social contracts for cooperation all the time. However cooperation only really works when there is direct competition to the cooperative. Sports teams cooperate against a competitive coop. A small state like Finland with its externalized economy does not suffer the ill effects of its "socialism" because it has lots of external exposure.
"Social contracts" and "cooperation" have nothing to do with one group (a majority, a ruling elite, or any form of "government") using aggression and violence to impose their will upon everyone else. That is slavery not "cooperation".

Cooperation supposes that one enters an agreement voluntarily, not at the end of the barrel of a gun of those in power. Cooperation is hardly an arrangement where some steal from others "legally" for the "collective good". It is hardly a "social contract" that anyone would sign whereby they give a "right" to others to initiate force upon them to their own detriment. Those definitions of "social contracts" and "cooperation" are no different than offering yourself up as a slave to whomever is in power...
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Old 06-29-2016, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,740,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
There is nothing inherently wrong with socialism ...
Not true at all. Just ask the people of Russia, North Korea, Cuba and Venezuela.

Central planning has always been a failure. Sometimes it takes a little longer, but it's always been a failure.

Here is an interesting video that Venezuela could benefit from;

http://learn.mruniversity.com/import...i1-h1-b1-l1-a1
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Old 06-29-2016, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Dallas
31,290 posts, read 20,740,494 times
Reputation: 9325
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Well a republic is a social contract with collectivist principle. So is a stop sign. So is private property.

Have a coherent point to make? My guess is no, being steeped so deep in winger sauce.
What is winger sauce?
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Old 06-29-2016, 05:43 PM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,742,256 times
Reputation: 1336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
What is winger sauce?
That's the stuff that people who believe in human freedom eat. For some reason it makes them not want to be slaves of the fictional collective or slaves of the State...
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Old 06-29-2016, 06:02 PM
 
18,802 posts, read 8,471,648 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
Not true at all. Just ask the people of Russia, North Korea, Cuba and Venezuela.

Central planning has always been a failure. Sometimes it takes a little longer, but it's always been a failure.

Here is an interesting video that Venezuela could benefit from;

http://learn.mruniversity.com/import...i1-h1-b1-l1-a1
Never say always.

I do believe that the Allied victory in WW2 was due to just a wee bit of central planning. Heck militaries are by and large, large socialist agencies.

Pass the winger sauce...
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Old 06-29-2016, 06:15 PM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,489,598 times
Reputation: 16962
Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow View Post
"Social contracts" and "cooperation" have nothing to do with one group (a majority, a ruling elite, or any form of "government") using aggression and violence to impose their will upon everyone else. That is slavery not "cooperation".

Cooperation supposes that one enters an agreement voluntarily, not at the end of the barrel of a gun of those in power. Cooperation is hardly an arrangement where some steal from others "legally" for the "collective good". It is hardly a "social contract" that anyone would sign whereby they give a "right" to others to initiate force upon them to their own detriment. Those definitions of "social contracts" and "cooperation" are no different than offering yourself up as a slave to whomever is in power...
Again with the violence and force silliness!

That record maybe got a better cut on the obverse; cause this side's gotten older than dried snot on your crapper stall wall.
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