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Old 06-22-2016, 01:07 PM
 
Location: The Island of Misfit Toys
2,767 posts, read 2,294,607 times
Reputation: 2343

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason3000 View Post
Yes, but they are forcibly taking for property for doing so. Your point was that no one is forcing us to pay taxes, as I explained that's incorrect. They very much are forcing us to pay taxes. You do not avoid those taxes by moving to another country as you incorrectly stated. Furthermore, forcing US laws on other countries via imperialism increasingly means there's no where to escape to. i.e. They will only take you if the US says they may, but then the US says you can't have a bank account in said country. How are you supposed to live without a bank account? What's next, take away your right to own a home, attend school or receive health care if you move away? You have a funny sense of freedom.
As a citizen of any country, yes, there are legal obligations that must be complied with. And force is applied if one tries to skirt those legal obligations.

But my point is, you can ultimately be free of those obligations with a little work. You can't just sever all ties in the middle of certain obligations placed on citizens by the respective laws of that nation. Otherwise, people would be applying to renounce citizenship to avoid paying debts and so forth...

So the government is not trying to be difficult...they're trying to prevent and control fraud...

I think the problem is you're trying to renounce your citizenship and skirt your tax obligations at the same time and that's where you call it "force"...my point is, comply with the law, and the dissolving of your citizenship will go smoother...and no more "force" will be applied on you...

The law, when it can either be peacefully changed by representative governing or ultimately avoided by dissolving ones citizenship, is not tyranny....In tyranny, there's no chance of change ...there's no chance of being free of a law other than by violent revolution...We have multiple peaceful options available to us...
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Old 06-22-2016, 01:12 PM
 
Location: The Island of Misfit Toys
2,767 posts, read 2,294,607 times
Reputation: 2343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyster View Post
Your catatonic fixation on renouncing citizenship is silly. So is almost everything else you say.
It's "silly" because you have nothing to counter it with.

If renouncing your citizenship had no meaning, there would no formal process for doing so.

You're effectively telling me renouncing citizenship means nothing. And that can't be because it's a thing. People do it. Why do it if it changes nothing?

You're arguing against logic.

If renouncing your citizenship doesn't free you from citizenship, what does it do?

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Old 06-22-2016, 01:14 PM
 
66,317 posts, read 30,193,250 times
Reputation: 8617
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shankapotomus View Post
It's "silly" because you have nothing to counter it with.

If renouncing your citizenship had no meaning, there would no formal process for doing so.
If we were really free to renounce, no formal process would be necessary.
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Old 06-22-2016, 01:19 PM
 
Location: The Island of Misfit Toys
2,767 posts, read 2,294,607 times
Reputation: 2343
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
What debts? I have no debts, so why shouldn't I be allowed to take what I've acquired with the money I've earned and have already been taxed on elsewhere if I renounce?

And even the US State Dept says that even after I renounce, I'm still obligated to perform military service for the US if the US Government says so.
You keep saying the same thing. Whatever you're obligated to do after renouncing your citizenship can't be forever. So it must be part of the legal process of renouncing citizenship. Now if you want to fight your legal responsibilities to the United States, I can't help you with that.

This is only about complying with the process required to dissolve your ties to the United States.

I'm not going to defend the government from your attempts to skirt its laws. Laws are laws. You may hate them but you have to comply with them until you're fully and officially free of your obligations to your former country.
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Old 06-22-2016, 01:21 PM
 
Location: The Island of Misfit Toys
2,767 posts, read 2,294,607 times
Reputation: 2343
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
If we were really free to renounce, no formal process would be necessary.
No, that's not accurate. You need to formally apply so the government knows not to treat you as a citizen in the future.

It's just a privilege to watch your mind at work. Dear Lord.
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Old 06-22-2016, 01:27 PM
 
8,199 posts, read 6,105,470 times
Reputation: 11730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shankapotomus View Post
You're not forced or oppressed by the government. There's no tyranny. This is not the British monarchy and you're not a minuteman. Stop reading old books. This is the 21st century.
King George was less tyrannical than our current government. The level of taxation we fought a war over then was nothing compared to what it is now. And before someone claims that we are taxed with representation now, I would ask if that is really true for the average person. Also, the average person had the same firearms as the military. And Obama might not be quartering soldiers in our homes, but he is quartering welfare deadbeats and criminals in our neighborhoods. I think I'd rather the soldiers: at least they understand self-discipline.
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Old 06-22-2016, 01:30 PM
 
66,317 posts, read 30,193,250 times
Reputation: 8617
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shankapotomus View Post
You keep saying the same thing. Whatever you're obligated to do after renouncing your citizenship can't be forever.
Why am I obligated to anything when I have no debt and have signed no contract to join the military?

Why am I not free to renounce and be done with it?
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Old 06-22-2016, 01:32 PM
 
3,792 posts, read 1,884,450 times
Reputation: 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by War Beagle View Post
King George was less tyrannical than our current government. The level of taxation we fought a war over then was nothing compared to what it is now. And before someone claims that we are taxed with representation now, I would ask if that is really true for the average person. Also, the average person had the same firearms as the military. And Obama might not be quartering soldiers in our homes, but he is quartering welfare deadbeats and criminals in our neighborhoods. I think I'd rather the soldiers: at least they understand self-discipline.
It wasn't the level of taxation, it was that the king want to pull the coins out of circulation, that would've been the end of our economy.


That is worth fighting a war over.
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Old 06-22-2016, 01:34 PM
 
66,317 posts, read 30,193,250 times
Reputation: 8617
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shankapotomus View Post
No, that's not accurate. You need to formally apply so the government knows not to treat you as a citizen in the future.
Apply? Why isn't self-identifying as no longer a US citizen good enough? That's how liberals want transgenders to be treated. Why isn't the same good enough for those who want to renounce US citizenship?

Note that transgenders don't have to "apply" to the federal government to be deemed as such.
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Old 06-22-2016, 01:43 PM
 
15,721 posts, read 9,219,517 times
Reputation: 14167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shankapotomus View Post
No, that's not accurate. You need to formally apply so the government knows not to treat you as a citizen in the future.

It's just a privilege to watch your mind at work. Dear Lord.
And you need to pay taxes on all YOUR property, that has already been taxed, as if you are selling it that day, even if you are not.

That's not freedom.
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