Gets this straight: Nobody is forcing anything on you (soldiers, compared, economy)
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As I've already explained, a draft has nothing to do with voluntarily signing a contract to join the military.
The US State Dept has already stated renouncing US citizenship does not free one from obligations to the US, including taxes, military service, etc.
Nope. The US State Dept has explicitly stated otherwise.
We are not free to leave and be done with the US whenever we choose. Period. The US State Dept example I gave has made that explicitly clear.
Well, I wouldn't expect you to be free of your tax and military obligations. Those debts you've accumulated while still a citizen, should be paid before you're officially and legally free of your responsibilities to the United States.
But once your outstanding tax and military obligations are caught up, you're free. That's sounds fair to me.
An electorate of federal dependents is forcing legislation, trade policy, immigration policy, taxes, and regulations at the pleasure of wealthy elites and liberal politicians.
We have a low information, poorly educated cohort of federal dependents who are shaping policy to obtain more and more gifts from the nation at the expense of the nation.
An electorate of federal dependents is forcing legislation, trade policy, immigration policy, taxes, and regulations at the pleasure of wealthy elites and liberal politicians.
We have a low information, poorly educated cohort of federal dependents who are shaping policy to obtain more and more gifts from the nation at the expense of the nation.
Ha! "Forcing legislation". That legislation is formed by democratically elected representatives. You don't like that legislation, you don't like those representatives, you're free to vote them out. Not only that, you're free to run for public office and make the changes yourself. How did the lawmakers get to where they are? They did the hard work to get in a position to write legislation. You're not forced anymore than they were? They got off their butts and did something about it. They didn't whine about government force. They entered government service and wrote the legislation.
Right, it's a process to renounce your citizenship and leave but you are free to do so. So you are not forced to perpetually submit to the U.S. Government. You're free to go through the process of renouncing your citizenship and leave. No one is forcing you to stay and perpetually submit to the government.
It's all very inconvenient, yes, but nobody is forcing you to submit perpetually.
Yes, but they are forcibly taking your property for doing so. Your point was that no one is forcing us to pay taxes, as I explained that's incorrect. They very much are forcing us to pay taxes. You do not avoid those taxes by moving to another country as you incorrectly stated. Furthermore, forcing US laws on other countries via imperialism, increasingly means there's no where to escape to. i.e. They will only take you if the US (read: corporations) says they may, but even then, the US (read: corporations) says you can't have a bank account in said country. How are you supposed to live a life in 2016 without a bank account? Most people can't even get paid from their job without a bank account these days. What's next, take away your right to own a home, attend school or receive health care if you move away? You have a funny sense of freedom. What you really are is a sadist. A bad person at your core. No one other than that, would enjoy the process of stripping people of their liberties and displacing them from their own country as much as you obviously do.
Last edited by Mason3000; 06-22-2016 at 01:00 PM..
If you're born in the United States, your citizenship is implied. Now you can say "I never signed a contract" But regardless, you are still perfectly free to go through the process of officially dissolving your relationship and obligations with and to the United States government.
So you could debate whether your citizenship is real or not but there's no debating that you can take the actions to officially renounce your citizenship.
And if you don't, you have no one but yourself to blame. And you can't claim you're forced.
If you don't like this government, have the courage to either legally change it through peaceful political action or go through the process of dissolving your relationship to it. But don't say you're forced. You're not forced.
The U.S. Government is the best thing that ever happened to you and you should be thankful it exists in the form it does.
That you could freely renounce your citizenship is no small thing. It is a government recognizing your rights.
Do you have any clue how beautiful that is?
You keep throwing around the word "free". Free does not mean what you think it means.
Because I don't have any serious objections to the direction of this country at this time. If serious objections came up I would certainly be prepared to renounce my citizenship.
Ha! "Forcing legislation". That legislation is formed by democratically elected representatives. You don't like that legislation, you don't like those representatives, you're free to vote them out. Not only that, you're free to run for public office and make the changes yourself. How did the lawmakers get to where they are? They did the hard work to get in a position to write legislation. You're not forced anymore than they were? They got off their butts and did something about it. They didn't whine about government force. They entered government service and wrote the legislation.
You can't honestly believe this can you? They got there because the corporations and the 1% put them there. They didn't get off their butts, they were chosen and sponsored to push the corporate-globalist agenda, that you embrace. Liberals are against corporate cronyism, against corruption, anti-war, pro-transparency, pro-whistleblower, pro-transparency and pro-privacy. The party you support is not even close to Liberal on any of the core Liberal issues. Liberals have ditched the Democratic Party, what's left are corporate-globalists like yourself who believe we should bow down to the will of the corporations that co-opted our government.
Are you aware that it is not as simple as leaving? It's not as simple as moving from Indiana to Maine. Most countries won't except Americans as permanent residents unless they have a highly sought after professional skill, are rich or are retired and have regular income.
That's where you are wrong. An American would need to have something to offer Canada before they would be allowed in permanently.
Exactly, you don't just pick up and leave the US and another country accepts you in. For example if an American wants to retire to Australia you need a sponsor and must show you have enough assets to live there and not be dependent on the Australian govt for anything in regards to financial or medical needs. And that still doesn't guarantee they will take you.
I did know a guy who live in England for about 10 years, but he was there illegally. He worked low paying jobs and stayed under the radar, his mother got ill and he came back to the US.
I notice a few posters have asked the OP where is one to go, and that question is ignored.
Well, I wouldn't expect you to be free of your tax and military obligations. Those debts you've accumulated while still a citizen, should be paid before you're officially and legally free of your responsibilities to the United States.
What debts? I have no debts, so why shouldn't I be allowed to take what I've acquired with the money I've earned and have already been taxed on elsewhere if I renounce?
And even the US State Dept says that even after I renounce, I'm still obligated to perform military service for the US if the US Government says so.
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