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Old 06-28-2016, 04:56 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 51,188,639 times
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I would agree with he drug testing so long as Alcohol and Nicotine were added to the proscribed list.


I believe we should institute an income tax based on all income from all sources including business profits with a single deduction set at the 90th percentile. The top 10% can then pay for the government that protects their wealth at the current expense of the rest of us.
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Old 06-28-2016, 06:00 AM
 
66,217 posts, read 30,074,688 times
Reputation: 8600
Fear-mongering propaganda? Really? PLEASE tell us you're not foolish enough to believe any of that.

Like I said, the poor are the largest group who receive FREE taxpayer-funded contraceptives. They should be using them.

Quote:
You're saying it's highly unlikely? Just how many sources and facts do you need to have to know that not only minimum wage workers (including but not llimited to Walmart workers), but many members of our military are on food stamps?
You asserted they're paying taxes that fund the food stamp and other welfare programs. They aren't, and I provided evidence stating exactly so. The bottom 40% of tax filers have a NEGATIVE average effective federal income tax rate. That fact provided by a LIBERAL think tank analysis of IRS data.

Quote:
So that didn't happen in 2008? Seriously?
Seriously.

Bailout highly profitable for taxpayers
https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...175_story.html

You seem to be quite under/misinformed. How did that happen?
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Old 06-28-2016, 06:08 AM
 
66,217 posts, read 30,074,688 times
Reputation: 8600
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
I would agree with he drug testing so long as Alcohol and Nicotine were added to the proscribed list.

I believe we should institute an income tax based on all income from all sources including business profits with a single deduction set at the 90th percentile. The top 10% can then pay for the government that protects their wealth at the current expense of the rest of us.
If that were all the federal government did, I'd agree with you. That means eliminate all means-tested social welfare programs. Restrict the federal government to ONLY what's permitted in the Constitution.

That also means no Obamacare. No Dept of Ed. No HUD. No GSEs. Refund everyone's FICA taxes paid to date plus compounded interest. No SS. No Medicare. Etc.

Would you agree to that since you believe only the top 10% benefit from government protection, services, and benefits?
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Old 06-28-2016, 06:15 AM
 
Location: Austin
29,512 posts, read 16,396,403 times
Reputation: 8053
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
If you set up a charity for yourself and then contribute to it so you can have deductions, you think that's not a loophole that shouldn't be closed? Because you sound like someone who would do that.
and you sound like somebody that would do it too, but just don't have the mental capacity to complete the forms. Hillary is the only one I know that does that.

BTW, I never said loopholes should not be closed.

Quote:
Let's talk about the government bailouts. If that's not government welfare for businesses, then what is?
I've always said bailouts are corporate and union welfare. The GM bailout was for the unions. The Solyndra welfare was for Obama's rich buddies. I oppose ALL government bailouts.

Quote:
Not only have I filed taxes all my life, I'm probably older than you are. And no, contrary to that you think, I've never used deductions except the standard ones everyone gets. I've filed short form all my life because I've never made enough money to use deductions.
So you do take advantage of the standard "loopholes". I thought so. Just like 100+ million other Americans.
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Old 06-28-2016, 06:18 AM
 
Location: Austin
29,512 posts, read 16,396,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
I would agree with he drug testing so long as Alcohol and Nicotine were added to the proscribed list. .
Let's add fishing poles and golf clubs to that list. I don't want my tax money going to recreation for welfare recipients.

Oh, and soft drinks too. And candy. And fast food. And lawn care. People on welfare should mow their own lawns.
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Old 06-28-2016, 06:22 AM
 
66,217 posts, read 30,074,688 times
Reputation: 8600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
and you sound like somebody that would do it too, but just don't have the mental capacity to complete the forms. Hillary is the only one I know that does that.
Of the two major parties' candidates, yes, only Hillary with her Clinton Foundation is guilty of exactly what rodentraiser is complaining about. That means rodentraiser and others won't vote for Hillary in November, correct?
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Old 06-28-2016, 07:13 AM
 
77,713 posts, read 33,130,619 times
Reputation: 15512
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
QE was union welfare too.
Yes it was.

Quote:
I never said there was no corporate welfare. Solyndra is a poster child for corporate welfare.
I don't think I was speaking about you specifically.
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Old 06-28-2016, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Washington state
5,345 posts, read 2,714,720 times
Reputation: 15952
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Fear-mongering propaganda? Really? PLEASE tell us you're not foolish enough to believe any of that.

Like I said, the poor are the largest group who receive FREE taxpayer-funded contraceptives. They should be using them.
Where, exactly, are all these free contraceptives at? I've already told you Planned Parenthood has a sliding fee scale - I know, because I've used them. What are your sources? I would be interested if you could provide names and addresses of these so-called free clinics.

So the poor should be using contraceptives? So should millions of middle and high class Americans. Why are you holding the poor to a higher standard than yourself? Basically what you're saying is having a baby is a privilege only the rich are supposed to enjoy. Well, why aren't you out pounding the streets looking to get a new law enacted, then? One that says no person in this country may have a child unless they have a million dollars certified in a trust fund for that baby?

Do you seriously think people in this country have babies and then never fall on hard times? Well, they do. Anyone in America can have the resources to have a baby and then face a natural disaster, a job loss, or a medical emergency and end up needing help for their kids. That would include you, too, because I doubt you had a million dollars in the bank before you had your kids. Spin it any way you want, but you probably couldn't afford to have your kids, either. You had your kids on credit, so why are you denying someone else the same privilege?


I don't think anyone will ever be able to ban birth control. But I know the sh*tstorm that happened after it was made available to the public and now more than 50 years later, there are still people who don't want the rest of us to use it. And you can't deny those people exist, no matter how much you'd like to.

Quote:

You asserted they're paying taxes that fund the food stamp and other welfare programs. They aren't, and I provided evidence stating exactly so. The bottom 40% of tax filers have a NEGATIVE average effective federal income tax rate. That fact provided by a LIBERAL think tank analysis of IRS data.

Seriously.
Read my lips here. Everyone who works in this country pays taxes (unless you're being paid under the table). ALL of those taxes go to fund something. I was making $5.50/hr when minimum wage was $5/hr, and at least a quarter of my paychecks went to taxes. So yes, everyone who works contributes something to the programs that fund our military and aid our social programs. If you're talking about people who take more out than they put in, let's talk about the amount of money in offshore accounts so the richest people in our country can avoid paying their fair share of taxes.

From "The High Cost of Walmart"

The High Cost of Wal-Mart

by Pete Dolack



Each United States Wal-Mart costs taxpayers nearly $1 million because of the company’s miserably low pay at the same time that the four heirs to the Wal-Mart fortune possess $107 billion in wealth. That’s no coincidence.

You subsidize Wal-Mart whether you shop there or not. And if you do shop there, you are facilitating the movement of production to countries with the harshest sweatshop conditions.

That Wal-Mart workers are often forced to use food stamps and other public-benefit programs is well known; but the company also receives a myriad of local tax benefits, free or reduced-price land, property- and sales-tax exemptions and various grants that, together, are difficult to quantify. The company’s known U.S. subsidies are far in excess of a billion dollars.


The High Cost of Wal-Mart


I receive Medicaid and had to use if for an aneurysm. I doubt very much it cost the taxpayers more than a billion dollars to have my aneurysm treated.


Then there's this:


10 corporate welfare programs that will make your blood boil


It starts out:

"The next time you hear someone complain about how the poor get “all this free stuff,” show them this.


Are ALL these different news sources in conspiracy with one another?


Quote:
Bailout highly profitable for taxpayers
https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...175_story.html

You seem to be quite under/misinformed. How did that happen?
Which taxpayers? How many people lost their jobs? Their houses? Did the bailouts help them? The bailouts saved the economy of the country. They saved companies. Things went south in a very bad way for most people in this country in 2008 and the only thing the bailouts did was keep a bad situation from getting a million times worse. The bailouts helped keep more people from going under - they did nothing for the people who already lost everything.

And as for being profitable, of course they were. Some people can still find jobs, buy stock, buy a house. But millions more were ruined pretty much forever - they lost pensions and good jobs and a place to live. Most of those people will never recover in their lifetimes. Even if the bailouts are now profiting them, they will never get back what they lost, let alone gain more.

Have you read The Big Short? I'm guessing you didn't.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post

BTW, I never said loopholes should not be closed.
Well, halleluja, we agree on something.

Quote:

So you do take advantage of the standard "loopholes". I thought so. Just like 100+ million other Americans.

There is a big difference in using the law as it stands and exploiting it for your own benefit at the expense of other people. I wouldn't be able to even finish my tax forms if I didn't take that deduction (filing single, married, etc). That's a long leap to hiding my money in tax havens so I didn't have to declare it.

Quote:

I've always said bailouts are corporate and union welfare. The GM bailout was for the unions. The Solyndra welfare was for Obama's rich buddies. I oppose ALL government bailouts.

Well, then, what's the problem? Don't respond to me, respond to Informed Consent, who says they're not.
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Old 06-29-2016, 06:35 AM
 
66,217 posts, read 30,074,688 times
Reputation: 8600
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
Where, exactly, are all these free contraceptives at? I've already told you Planned Parenthood has a sliding fee scale - I know, because I've used them.
Medicaid. Public Health Departments. Etc. Why are you only focused on PP? They're actually a very small part of the picture in servicing poor women's health care needs.

Quote:
Do you seriously think people in this country have babies and then never fall on hard times?
Barring an unforeseen catastrophic accident or illness, they shouldn't. Responsible people PLAN their families. That includes having a minimum amount of savings to cover "hard times" until they can redirect their efforts into earning enough to support themselves and their dependents elsewhere.

Quote:
Well, they do. Anyone in America can have the resources to have a baby and then face a natural disaster, a job loss, or a medical emergency and end up needing help for their kids. That would include you, too, because I doubt you had a million dollars in the bank before you had your kids.
Well, gosh, why have we NEVER been on Medicaid, welfare, food stamps, section 8, TANF, etc., etc.? Even DURING episodes of job loss, illness, accident recovery, 100 year flooding, etc.

Because we PLANNED for exactly such adverse conditions before we started our family. Duh.

Quote:
Read my lips here. Everyone who works in this country pays taxes (unless you're being paid under the table).
Explain the bottom 40%'s NEGATIVE federal income tax rates.

Quote:
I receive Medicaid...
That explains your 'freebies for me but not for thee' attitude.

Quote:
How many people lost their jobs? Their houses? Did the bailouts help them?
Yes, they did. Read it and weep:

Tens of thousands of homeowners are 5+ years behind on their mortgage payments, and as such are getting their homes for free because the statute of limitations on foreclosure has expired.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/30/bu...ires.html?_r=0

How is that getting paid for? The Federal Reserve created $2 trillion in QE, used it to buy Fannie and Freddie MBS, and still holds $1.75+ trillion worth of Fannie and Freddie MBS on their books. That's $2 trillion of created money artificially pumped into the economy, which devalues the dollar and therefore reduces purchasing power. Guess who that harms the most.
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Old 06-29-2016, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Austin
29,512 posts, read 16,396,403 times
Reputation: 8053
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodentraiser View Post
There is a big difference in using the law as it stands and exploiting it for your own benefit at the expense of other people.
No, there is not. Every legal tax deduction is on the same legal and moral ground. You are no different that a rich person or Walmart. You both take advantage of legal tax deductions (that you choose to call loopholes).
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