U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 08-12-2016, 01:10 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
66,574 posts, read 33,860,210 times
Reputation: 14284

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
What about the part that valued black men as less than white men? As just one example of how our founding fathers were also mere mortals and subject to mistake. If it were not for the fact that the founding fathers could not know what we know now, their words written back then might be considered as absolutely beyond question, as you suggest, but clearly, we are called upon to judge today as future generations will also be called upon to do.

Thomas Jefferson put it exactly right!

“I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and Constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.”

How I wish our founding fathers could comment in this thread, help us out a bit with today's circumstances...

Wasn't Thomas Jefferson a smart man? I'd say so!

For that fact, the US Constitution has been amended how many times to reflect progress of the human mind, since the original Bill of Rights?

Legislation by Congress, does not amend the constitution by government interpretation.
The Bill of Rights, to serve as "further guards for private rights." In that regard, the first ten amendments to the Constitution were designed to be a series of "shall nots," telling the new national and established state governments that agreed to the union, in no certain or uncertain terms, where it could not tread.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-12-2016, 01:13 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
66,574 posts, read 33,860,210 times
Reputation: 14284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
My original post on martial law, I spelled it martial, I don't know where marshal came from.

Me. I said Marshall Law... My inlaws are Marshall's. Wifes maiden name. Habit

Then someone corrected me and said it was Marshal. LOL
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-12-2016, 01:37 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
14,266 posts, read 11,660,804 times
Reputation: 13300
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
well done.



once again you continue to show your ignorance on the subject. compare the mass of the human body compared to its extremities. note that the larger central mass is easier to hit than ANY of the extremities. when you want to stop a threat, you dont try to shoot the legs, or the arms, you go for center mass.

why? because the major organs, except for the brain, are all in the center mass of the body.

now as to why the cops had to shoot the guy 55 times, there are a couple of reasons;

1: ammunition. the cops use 9mm "ball" ammunition. it doesnt expand much, and tends to travel in a straight line and leave a small hole.

2: the person in question could have been high on drugs. if you have ever dealt with someone who is high, they dont feel pain, and their adrenaline is pumping in large amounts into the body, which means that a couple of rounds are not going to have a major effect on the body right then. later on when the drugs and adrenaline wear off, the body will feel the shock from the bullets that hit him.

like i said before, please educate yourself before spouting off on something you know little about. i realize that the movies and TV show people flying off their feet when they get hit by a bullet, and they also show the hero shooting people in the leg or the arm and minimizing damage from bullets, but it is not reality. and just because you accept it as reality, doesnt mean the rest of the world does. once i again i urge you to educate yourself in reality and not the fantasy that is teh movies and TV.
One, particular thing, stands out here as serious misinformation. The cops do NOT use ball ammunition, and haven't for decades now. Each dept has different standard issue, but things like Rem Gold Sabre, Federal Hydra Shock, Hornady XTP, and Win SXT (formerly known as "Black Talon) are common.

The police use very advanced bullet tech now. The military is limited to ball, by the Hauge Accords, but not the cops. You won't find any police weapons stoking with ball. From 9mm to 45 ACP, police sidearms are loaded with the best bullet designs out there. Real fight stoppers. , designed for maximum terminal performance. Even the diminutive 9mm, has been made quite effective. It can match 38 Spec, +p+ performance now, many depts use the 40 SW now, splitting between 9mm and 45 ACP performance, and the 45 ACP launches flying sledge hammers with LE ammo.

At distances which cops use their sidearms, the ammunition they utilize is more than effective, IF the shooter does his part. LE shootings tend to run into high round counts, with few terminal hits. Far to often, stray rounds end up in places they shouldnt. High capacity has replaced marksmanship. LE is way guilty of that mindset. That comment may get me BBQd in certain circles, but, it has the virtue of being true.

Yet, with a doctrine like that, ingrained in our police, the question of what to do about "gun violence" vets asked, and people start pointing at civilian gun ownership. Civilian firearms circles are still , heavily, marksmanship orie ted, with an even heavier emphasis on target acquisition, and shoot/don't shoot training. Police will shoot, being trained to immediately return fire or engage a suspect with a weapon(even the mere appearance there MIGHT be a weapon) even with bystanders downrange. This has had disaterous consequences, though we seldom hear about them. If we do, it's buried on pg 17, so to speak.

Violent criminals, street vans in particular, represent a huge slice of the "gun violence" pie. Taken out of the equation, that drops shooting stars way down. However, all the laws and restrictions that can be dreamed of, won't stop them from having, and using, military grade hardware, a d the police engage these psychopaths with the same tactics the latter , themselves, employ. Scorched earth. High volume, suppressive type, firepower. Firearms, and the projectiles the launch, go where the operator tells them to, not where they will them to.

Thus, the solutions to curving "gun violence" does not lay with guns. Its about people. Personally, I believe that every capable, and physically/mentally sound High Schooler should be trained and qualified in the safe use of standard , military type, firearms. The AR15, and the, current issue, Beretta M9. Both are suitable for duty in the citizen militia, of which we all are a part. The militia is not just purposed for resisting a government take over, or foreign invasion. First and foremost, it is for protecting our communities, our homes, our families from more immediate threats. Like street gangs.

Want to see violent crime and wonton shootings drop? Then let communities organize and fight back. That is how I see it...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-13-2016, 11:13 AM
 
12,838 posts, read 3,248,634 times
Reputation: 1602
Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
One, particular thing, stands out here as serious misinformation. The cops do NOT use ball ammunition, and haven't for decades now. Each dept has different standard issue, but things like Rem Gold Sabre, Federal Hydra Shock, Hornady XTP, and Win SXT (formerly known as "Black Talon) are common.

The police use very advanced bullet tech now. The military is limited to ball, by the Hauge Accords, but not the cops. You won't find any police weapons stoking with ball. From 9mm to 45 ACP, police sidearms are loaded with the best bullet designs out there. Real fight stoppers. , designed for maximum terminal performance. Even the diminutive 9mm, has been made quite effective. It can match 38 Spec, +p+ performance now, many depts use the 40 SW now, splitting between 9mm and 45 ACP performance, and the 45 ACP launches flying sledge hammers with LE ammo.

At distances which cops use their sidearms, the ammunition they utilize is more than effective, IF the shooter does his part. LE shootings tend to run into high round counts, with few terminal hits. Far to often, stray rounds end up in places they shouldnt. High capacity has replaced marksmanship. LE is way guilty of that mindset. That comment may get me BBQd in certain circles, but, it has the virtue of being true.

Yet, with a doctrine like that, ingrained in our police, the question of what to do about "gun violence" vets asked, and people start pointing at civilian gun ownership. Civilian firearms circles are still , heavily, marksmanship orie ted, with an even heavier emphasis on target acquisition, and shoot/don't shoot training. Police will shoot, being trained to immediately return fire or engage a suspect with a weapon(even the mere appearance there MIGHT be a weapon) even with bystanders downrange. This has had disaterous consequences, though we seldom hear about them. If we do, it's buried on pg 17, so to speak.

Violent criminals, street vans in particular, represent a huge slice of the "gun violence" pie. Taken out of the equation, that drops shooting stars way down. However, all the laws and restrictions that can be dreamed of, won't stop them from having, and using, military grade hardware, a d the police engage these psychopaths with the same tactics the latter , themselves, employ. Scorched earth. High volume, suppressive type, firepower. Firearms, and the projectiles the launch, go where the operator tells them to, not where they will them to.

Thus, the solutions to curving "gun violence" does not lay with guns. Its about people. Personally, I believe that every capable, and physically/mentally sound High Schooler should be trained and qualified in the safe use of standard , military type, firearms. The AR15, and the, current issue, Beretta M9. Both are suitable for duty in the citizen militia, of which we all are a part. The militia is not just purposed for resisting a government take over, or foreign invasion. First and foremost, it is for protecting our communities, our homes, our families from more immediate threats. Like street gangs.

Want to see violent crime and wonton shootings drop? Then let communities organize and fight back. That is how I see it...
With only a quick opportunity to check in on this thread before having to move on, I'm impressed with this comment on more than a few levels, though it reads like yet another "look what I know about guns" type comment. Despite all that..., there is also the comment or thoughts about the problem.

Personally, I think if the answer is to do as you write, bolded above, I think most Americans would elect to simply accept the problem of violence and/or gun violence as no doubt we would even if we did all train and arm up, because most of us really don't want to live the life of gun culture. Most are okay that hunters might, target shooters might, too bad about the bad guys with guns too, but we don't all want to live that life despite the dangers. I know for me and most of the people I know, my kids and theirs as well, we've done okay without the training, living life in a different way, despite the dangers. We don't need or want more guns in our life. This is a call that typically only comes from those already into guns, no one else I know.

Maybe if the above comment came with some evidence that more kids/people trained to use guns would lead to stopping more bad guys from using theirs, I'd think again, but given that these well trained and armed law enforcement people can't manage that, now being picked off by snipers no less, I don't see more people with guns as any sort of answer. I used to fear my kids going down the street into homes where I knew the parents (typically the father) had guns. I feared the problem of their kids somehow exposing my kids to their guns more than I did the bad guy with a gun coming around.

All told, again, it's about quality of life, and how we as individuals define that. For most people, it doesn't include guns, just the hope of avoiding them altogether, like cancer. Just not always possible, most unfortunately. Still, I know some people just love their guns, and I respect that. Hopefully they will just not expect others to have the same love or assume that love or interest is to be had by all. I pay taxes to have law enforcement officials do what they can. I'd rather not also pay more taxes for gun training of all kids in school, thank you very much. Especially when there is so little evidence that average folks with guns prevents violence by any negligible measure.

A good day to you, as I think I'll enjoy life today doing other things (again, hopefully, not involving even the sight of a gun). May you enjoy whatever you're doing as well...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-15-2016, 01:18 PM
 
12,838 posts, read 3,248,634 times
Reputation: 1602
A few words of caution as to facts vs fiction, who and/or what to believe...

Lott has staged a career comeback by speaking out against gun regulation in the wake of the massacre at Connecticut’s Sandy Hook Elementary School. His contention that more guns make societies safer has made him a favorite of the National Rifle Association and other pro-gun agencies.

However, as Devin Hughes and Evan DeFelippis wrote, before he became the darling of the pro-gun right, “Not only was Lott’s assertion that more guns leads to more safety formally repudiated by a National Research Council panel, but he had also been caught pushing studies with severe statistical errors on numerous occasions. An investigation uncovered that he had almost certainly fabricated an entire survey on defensive gun use. And a blogger revealed that Mary Rosh, an online commentator claiming to be a former student of Lott’s who would frequently post about how amazing he was, was in fact John Lott himself. He was all but excommunicated from academia.”

Lott founded the Crime Prevention Research Center (CRRC), a think tank designed to push his debunked theories on a new audience. Broadcast media — eager to find someone who seemed authoritative who preach the pro-gun gospel in the wake of Sandy Hook — took Lott at face value, believing his falsified claims and giving him columns and guest spots with “the Washington Post, the Wall Street Journal, LA Times, Politifact, CBS, CNN, Fox News, and many others.”

NRA’s favorite ‘academic’ John Lott exposed as a data-fudging, sock-puppeting fraud

Came across this story today. Thought people visiting this thread might also find "interesting."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top