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Old 06-23-2016, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
21,319 posts, read 21,890,925 times
Reputation: 33486

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
I've followed this issue for a while now, also by way of more than a few gun threads, and though I have not been altogether against gun control, I have come to accept there isn't much that can be done to stop gun violence in America or even to lessen the body count by any acceptable level. I am no gun expert, and I have been chastised for having an opinion though I am not an expert, even for relying on experts instead. However, as compared to many gun enthusiasts in these threads, for example, I just tend to pay closer attention to other experts that tend to make more sense without all the gun obsession detail down to the patina. Accordingly, rather than go round and round those gun circles, I'm glad to have this to offer as my position. IOWs, I tend to agree almost entirely with what is written here. Not that the "answers" put forth here are altogether satisfying, but about the best we can do I think...

"What can be done to address this much larger toll of gun violence, which leaves nearly 100,000 Americans killed or wounded each year?"

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ks-what-doesnt

while generally opposed to wanton gun violence throughout America, I think they should stop thinking of gun control and start thinking of bullet control. You can't tell me that they couldn't design a bullet that only goes a foot or so away from the end of the gun before falling to the ground. Once they sneak them onto the gun store shelves, in a matter of a week or two, everyone would have used up their supply of long range bullets shooting at tree stumps, their neighbors or the moon and the new shorty bullets would be in full implementation.
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Old 06-23-2016, 12:34 PM
 
Location: louisville
4,754 posts, read 2,011,795 times
Reputation: 1713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghengis View Post
while generally opposed to wanton gun violence throughout America, I think they should stop thinking of gun control and start thinking of bullet control. You can't tell me that they couldn't design a bullet that only goes a foot or so away from the end of the gun before falling to the ground. Once they sneak them onto the gun store shelves, in a matter of a week or two, everyone would have used up their supply of long range bullets shooting at tree stumps, their neighbors or the moon and the new shorty bullets would be in full implementation.
You are being facetious right
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Old 06-23-2016, 12:37 PM
 
7,311 posts, read 4,954,102 times
Reputation: 6337
We could stop focusing on it and sensationalizing it.
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Old 06-23-2016, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
12,351 posts, read 7,507,136 times
Reputation: 15950
A disproportionate share of gun violence has been linked to the gang/drug culture of the inner cities. Any trained officer can recognize gang colors, and usually knows the local gangsters on sight. Yet the professional hand-wringers at this site seem more up in arms about the Ku Klux Klan (which has devolved into a small, laughable set of absolute losers), than about the real threat posed by the Crips, Bloods et. al.

We need laws that heavily discourage gang-banger wannabees -- get them off the street, and into the heavily-structured existence they despise and fear -- on the first offense, and for a long-enough period of time that they'll think (admittedly a challenge in some cases) twice before doing the same thing again.
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Old 06-23-2016, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Bel Air, California
21,319 posts, read 21,890,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stymie13 View Post
You are being facetious right

you could still shoot someone coming at you
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Old 06-23-2016, 01:56 PM
 
Location: MS
4,266 posts, read 4,079,715 times
Reputation: 1488
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrt1979 View Post
#1 Better education in regards to gun safety, gun laws, and gun storage. Kids should learn basic gun safety in school, and all gun owners should be required to pass some form of gun safety course. This would particularly make a difference in our inner cities where so many gun owners did not grow up around gun culture.

#2 harsher penalties for possession of illegal weapons. We're talking mandatory 10 years for carrying an illegal firearm and 20 years for committing a violent crime with one. Life in prison for a second offense of either.

#3 Federal transfer laws and Harsher penalties for illegal transfers. First offense, mandatory $5000 fine and loss of gun rights for 5 years. Second offense, 1 year in jail with loss of gun rights forever.

#4 Random frisking and searches of those suspected of possibly having an illegal firearm in high crime areas. Yes, profiling suspected gang members.

#5 A no buy list for individuals prescribed a list of certain psych drugs used to treat psychosis and individuals that have been treated for psychosis within the last 5 years.

#6 A no buy list for individuals that have been treated for methamphetamine addiction or charged with possession of methamphetamine within the last 5 years.

#7 A no buy list for those on the FBI watch list, which triggers an investigation within 24 hours after a failed background check

#8 A 30 day delay for those on the no fly list, which triggers an investigation within 24 hours after a failed background check

#9 Permit required for purchase or possession of any semiautomatic weapon with a detachable magazine. Permit will require a mental health check as well as a more intense background check.

#10 Death penalty for those caught smuggling illegal firearms or hard drugs across our borders into the country. Better border security technology including drones, invisible gates, and a BIG-AZZ wall.

#11 Offer a special training course for those that wish to carry in gun free zones. It should be similar to LE training, but available to those that wish to jump through the hoops.

#12 Possession of a legal firearm while under the influence of drugs or alcohol = $500 fine loss of gun rights for five years. second offense= year in jail and loss of gun rights forever.

#13 offer a national concealed weapons permit and open carry to those that complete a standardized training course.




As a law abiding citizen, none of these things would prevent me from owning and AK-47 or carrying a Glock 17 on my hip.
#1 Treat the 2nd Amendment like the first. What tests are you going to make members of the press and bloggers pass? Put a card with the 4 gun safety rules in every gun sold. Each store could get some made up from VistaPrint.


#2 Define an illegal weapon.

#3 Are you advocating universal background checks? How will you enforce them without registration?

#4 How do you get around the 4th Amendment?
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

#5 & #6 How do you get around medical privacy laws?

#7 & #8 How are you going to deny someone their 2nd Amendment right without a trial?

#9 I'd say the majority of the guns purchased are semi-auto with a detachable mag. My oldest was made in 1915. With that type of volume, who will perform this mental health check? If it is a doctor then see item #5 and #6. How much more of a background check should these owners go through?

#10 I agree.

#11 We have that here in MS. It's about 6 hours in the classroom and a simple accuracy test at the range. If we pass we can carry in any city, county or state building unless that building houses prisoners. This includes everything from my local elementary school to the state capital.

#12 So I can't have a drink in my house?

#13 Most states use the NRA concealed carry course. MS does not as it treats its citizens as adults.
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Old 06-23-2016, 02:01 PM
 
Location: MS
4,266 posts, read 4,079,715 times
Reputation: 1488
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghengis View Post
while generally opposed to wanton gun violence throughout America, I think they should stop thinking of gun control and start thinking of bullet control. You can't tell me that they couldn't design a bullet that only goes a foot or so away from the end of the gun before falling to the ground. Once they sneak them onto the gun store shelves, in a matter of a week or two, everyone would have used up their supply of long range bullets shooting at tree stumps, their neighbors or the moon and the new shorty bullets would be in full implementation.
I don't know anyone with a week's supply of ammo. That's just funny. Most of my friends have enough for an ammo fort.





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Old 06-23-2016, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,900 posts, read 10,784,978 times
Reputation: 7242
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
I've followed this issue for a while now, also by way of more than a few gun threads, and though I have not been altogether against gun control, I have come to accept there isn't much that can be done to stop gun violence in America or even to lessen the body count by any acceptable level. I am no gun expert, and I have been chastised for having an opinion though I am not an expert, even for relying on experts instead. However, as compared to many gun enthusiasts in these threads, for example, I just tend to pay closer attention to other experts that tend to make more sense without all the gun obsession detail down to the patina. Accordingly, rather than go round and round those gun circles, I'm glad to have this to offer as my position. IOWs, I tend to agree almost entirely with what is written here. Not that the "answers" put forth here are altogether satisfying, but about the best we can do I think...

"What can be done to address this much larger toll of gun violence, which leaves nearly 100,000 Americans killed or wounded each year?"

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ks-what-doesnt
Couple thoughts....


Once again, as I've told you in other threads, your focus specifically on "gun related" violence totally misses the relevant point. The focus should be on violence, period, and whether or not further controls on guns will have the effect of reducing the over-all rate of violence in our communities. Treat the disease, not the symptom.


Second, your referral to our arguments as those of "gun enthusiasts" instead of, say, gun rights supporters, creates the perception that you really don't take our arguments all that seriously. I mean, would you ever refer to someone as an "abortion enthusiast"? Don't expect to have a serious conversation when your language tells us right out of the gate that you don't take us seriously.
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Old 06-23-2016, 02:10 PM
 
34,272 posts, read 18,575,986 times
Reputation: 7572
Well, we could start by stopping the knee jerk reaction, "only when a mass shooting happens" that would work. Then sit down and have an actual conversation about gun violence, maybe have people understand what type of weapon does the most killing (you know educate yourself with the overall argument).

Have you noticed how the left only cries when it's a mass shooting, they don't care about the daily shootings....(when was the last time a shooting went national, not being a mass shooting?) Think about it a minute before you answer that question...

People wonder why the right does not want new laws when current laws are not being enforced (knee jerk reaction) when ole joe says we don't even enforce the current laws....

Quote:
“And to your point, Mr. Baker, regarding the lack of prosecutions on lying on Form 4473s, we simply don’t have the time or manpower to prosecute everybody who lies on a form, that checks a wrong box, that answers a question inaccurately.”

VP: We 'don't have the time' to charge background check lies | The Daily Caller

So the left want more laws they won't enforce....amazing...
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Old 06-23-2016, 02:12 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
66,505 posts, read 33,791,630 times
Reputation: 14240
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
What could actually work to fix gun violence in America.

100% incarceration..... Wait, when riots broke out, guns were needed to put down the mob. More gun violence.

How do we reduce it? Demand everyone find Jesus, again.
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