What could actually work to fix gun violence in America. (regime, fence)
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There are mentally unstable, uncivilized folks in every nation on earth. The difference between lets say Spain and us here in the states is that in Spain mentally unstable lunatics cannot get a hold of guns very easily. Hence they are not capable of mass shootings because the instrument required is unavailable. We will never rid the world of crazy people but we can reduce the damage they can inflict upon us.
If we want to protect the working class, we can protect them from predatory businesses and from the mirage of financial scams that hold them down. Find a way to bring more jobs back to blighted areas. We can change government to allow for our voices to be better heard. None of the issues that inflict the working class in the 21st century will require the use of a weapon to be fixed.
You miss the point. Until you can stop ALL gun violence and 100% eliminate any chance of a criminal getting their hands on one, we don't want guns taken away. None of us want to be that one person who falls victim to a lunatic who got his hands on a gun when we can no longer have one. A gun is the great equalizer, allowing law abiding citizens the ability to protect ourselves against those who we may not normally be able to protect against. They have their role.
If you don't think they are capable of mass shootings in Spain, you're sorely mistaken. Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean that it can't. People purchase illegal firearms every day. And Spain has enough issues with violence as it is.
There are a lot of issues in the US today. A gun itself is not an issue. The mentally unstable people that appear to be popping up from the woodwork is the real issue.
Well stated. Maybe if politicians and citizens focused on the REAL REASONS for the attacks in the first place, we may be able to stem the tide.
Call TERRORIST ATTACKS what they are. Fort Hood, San Bernadino, Orlando, etc.
BLAME THE ACTIONS OF THE KILLER NOT THE GUNS!
Mental illness is often involved with these killers. We need to focus on that issue!
STOP GLORIFYING THESE MASS KILLERS! Stop reporting about every aspect of these killers on TV. Don't give names of the killers. Focus on the victims. Killers often seek the fame related to "spectacular" murders. Take away that opportunity at infamy.
FOCUS ON INNER CITY VIOLENCE! Focus on the tragedy of black on black violence. Focus on gang related murders and crime.
Focus on statistics that show that guns DO PROTECT people. Although hard to track, there are TONS of stories about crimes and murder being thwarted by law abiding gun owners.
Get rid of Gun Free zones. Giant gun free zone signs are nothing but invitations to criminals to commit crimes with the knowledge that they won't be stopped.
About this in bold above, I can't help but be amused how the Constitution is used by gun enthusiasts at the drop of the hat, as if the end-all proof that gun control is illegal, but restricting the media is somehow always okay?
I like the thinking and/or sentiments, but when we consider how many mass murderers are doing their thing because of fame rather than some serious mental illness, and if we consider the "glorification" that goes on in so many movies "coming soon to a theater near you," I suspect the idea bolded above is a nonstarter.
You don't need to be an expert to have an opinion, many of the so called "experts" have their own biases that they use to persuade others they have the answer. Your struggle with such a serious issue of mass shootings and gun control go deeper than just the headlines, so it is understandable it's hard to wrap our heads around any legitimate solution. At the core is the liberties that are unique to Americans, guaranteed by the Constitution vs. some modicum of safety in a lawful society. Unfortunately our politicians have politicized the issue, and that's not going to solve anything.
Thanks, and for the most part agreed, but when it comes to your last statement, I really have to wonder...
I struggle with this notion that government representatives "politicize the issue," or if so, just what issue is a politician supposed to focus upon without "politicizing" it? It's called politics after all...
Politicians have to address that which becomes a public issue and/or concern, right? There may be the partisan take, the rhetoric and all the rest that is part of politics, often a bit of a show, sure, but for the most part it is the issue that makes it into politics, not the other way around, unless the issue truly is a non-issue, in which case the politicizing doesn't last long. Certainly not as long as the gun-violence issue in America has lasted...
You will never get rid of millions of firearms. Those who own firearms and who come from families where guns are common place and respected are NOT the problem - The problem is in gun SALES. If you have not noticed...these mass killings are done by people who have only RECENTLY purchased a gun not by long time gun owners.
Gun dealers must stop governing their business through profit or unbridled greed. These people who sell guns have met thousands of people who are NORMAL and mature...they can also spot a person who they know through their experience should NOT own a gun. Still- they sell to anyone who can pass a background check and who has the money.
Gun dealers should be instructed to use their discretion on who to sell to and who not to sell to. There must be a law where gun sellers are held responsible for their actions. The point is most of us can tell who is a risk and who is not. For instance imagine the buyer as a drunk at a house party....would you trust this person with a deadly weapon?
As I mentioned, you can not recall millions of guns............
In my world, there would be 4 -5 pistol models sold for home and self defense and another 12 or so long guns sold for hunting. And those guns would be the ONLY ones offered for sale in any store, and the ONLY non-military ones manufactured.
In other words, I would take the sexiness out of gun ownership. A permanent buy back program would slowly take all the rest out the guns out of the hands of civilians. Probably take 50 years to complete the program.
I mean, a "civilian version" of the military M-16?!
C'mon. You want to play with guns, join the military.
Once again, as I've told you in other threads, your focus specifically on "gun related" violence totally misses the relevant point. The focus should be on violence, period, and whether or not further controls on guns will have the effect of reducing the over-all rate of violence in our communities. Treat the disease, not the symptom.
Second, your referral to our arguments as those of "gun enthusiasts" instead of, say, gun rights supporters, creates the perception that you really don't take our arguments all that seriously. I mean, would you ever refer to someone as an "abortion enthusiast"? Don't expect to have a serious conversation when your language tells us right out of the gate that you don't take us seriously.
Put it this way..., I offered this thread and/or article as what I would call my conclusion all considered. Address what you view as objectionable from the article, specifically, and maybe we can avoid going around in circles. I have all too often explained why I agree the effort toward sensible gun control is warranted, to address gun related incidents of violence, injury and death. I think the article is pretty sensible when it comes to treating "the disease" you reference and/or accepting what reality we can't do much about, or again..., how do you disagree more specifically?
As for "gun enthusiasts" vs "gun rights supporters," I think I tend to use the first term because I have read so many comments in these threads from what can only be called "gun enthusiasts." Have you read the comments, seen the pictures? I mean I probably should use the term "gun obsessives."
About this in bold above, I can't help but be amused how the Constitution is used by gun enthusiasts at the drop of the hat, as if the end-all proof illegal that gun control is illegal, but restricting the media is somehow always okay?
I like the thinking and/or sentiments, but when we consider how many mass murderers are doing their thing because of fame rather than some serious mental illness, and if we consider the "glorification" that goes on in so many movies "coming soon to a theater near you," I suspect the idea bolded above is a nonstarter.
The problem is that the media sensationalizing these killers is all that a deranged person needs to make the decision to go find a gun and kill more people. When media plays such a huge role in everyone's lives you begin to believe and live what you see. If all that is on tv, social media, and radio is violence it is much easier for people to get sucked into that lifestyle.
If the media would focus on more positive things that are going on gun violence wouldn't be as big of an issue. There have been numerous studies on this. All confirming the same results.
Think about this..... when a shooter goes on a rampage what does the media do?
They:
Name the shooter (giving him recognition to the country)
They describe his characteristics (gives the next potential criminal acknowledgement that they are like him)
They detail the crime (giving the next potential criminal specifics on what he did, and how he did it)
They number the victims (like the body count in a video game, where the goal is to get as high a number as possible)
They rank him against other "successful" shooters (giving the next person a goal to try and beat)
The media has its place, but it fails to use caution when airing these stories. With so many troubled individuals walking around now, any attempt at giving them the attention they so desperately seek could be the spark that sets off numerous others.
I tell people that I'm getting ready for the zombie apocalypse because anything less than that will be easy to get through.
It's not like buying milk either. With proper storage, ammo will last for decades.
Given whatever apocalypse these survival types are preparing for, I am always amused at the mother henning of the ammo rather than concern for the food and water that doesn't last quite as long. Since we all know the first thing the aliens (legal or illegal) will do is take control of the distribution of food, water and fuel, better get a bigger bunker and store up on all that as long as it takes to win back America (and make her great again of course)!
Here's the REAL REASON why it is vital to squelch any attempt by government to "control gun violence" by abolishing the unconditional right to bear arms.
. . .
"... at the Revolution, the sovereignty devolved on the people, and they are truly the sovereigns of the country, but they are SOVEREIGNS WITHOUT SUBJECTS, and have none to govern but themselves.
"... In Europe, the sovereignty is generally ascribed to the Prince; here, it rests with the people; there, the sovereign actually administers the government; here, never in a single instance; our Governors are the agents of the people, and, at most, stand in the same relation to their sovereign in which regents in Europe stand to their sovereigns."
- - - Justice John Jay in Chisholm v. Georgia (2 U.S. 419 (1793))
Justice John Jay says government is an agent for the sovereign people, not sovereign over them. They govern themselves (unless they consent otherwise).
SUBJECT - One that owes allegiance to a sovereign and is governed by his laws.
. . . Men in free governments are subjects as well as citizens; as citizens they enjoy rights and franchises; as subjects they are bound to obey the laws. The term is little used, in this sense, in countries enjoying a republican form of government.
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, p. 1425
In no other nation are the people sovereigns over their government. All other people are subjects of their sovereign governments. Only America has a republican form of government.
If you grasp that, you will see that Americans cannot tolerate a SERVANT government to DICTATE disarming the SOVEREIGN PEOPLE, by even the slightest means. That is ANATHEMA to the promised republican form of government and the sovereignty of the American people.
(Of course, if you've consented to be governed, sit down, shut up, and obey)
Remember, all that government is authorized to do is "secure rights" as in prosecute AFTER THE ACT, not abolish liberty "just in case."
Frankly, the day when sufficient numbers of Americans wake up, withdraw consent from the socialist democracy, and return to the republican form, all those guns in the hands of the people insure that servant government stays servant.
Reminds me of the comedy movie, "He's Just Not that Into You."
Gun enthusiasts don't seem to understand that most average Americans are just not that into guns.
Hard as that may be for some to imagine...
A lot of that is the misinformation passed on by the government influenced media.
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