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Old 06-25-2016, 06:39 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,889,092 times
Reputation: 11259

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“In the tragic vision, individual sufferings and social evils are inherent in the innate deficiencies of all human beings, whether these deficiencies are in knowledge, wisdom, morality, or courage. Moreover, the available resources are always inadequate to fulfill all the desires of all the people. Thus there are no “solutions” in the tragic vision, but only trade-offs that still leave many unfulfilled and much unhappiness in the world.” — P. 113--- Thomas Sowell "The Vision of the Anointed"
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Old 06-25-2016, 06:52 PM
 
Location: Madison, WI
5,301 posts, read 2,355,152 times
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Yep, which is why I'm against the use of force to "make" society into some vision of how they think it should be. There's no way to engineer and control society to make everyone happy and solve their problems...

Politics is a never-ending struggle that can't be won, so at least grant everybody freedom from the coercion of others and let their own decisions determine their future rather than decisions made for them by some slimy politician.
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Old 06-25-2016, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Lyon, France, Whidbey Island WA
20,834 posts, read 17,102,752 times
Reputation: 11535
Take the new medications. You'll feel much better.
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Old 06-25-2016, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,889,092 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by AADAD View Post
Take the new medications. You'll feel much better.
But what are the side effects?
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Old 06-25-2016, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,208,835 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by T0103E View Post
Yep, which is why I'm against the use of force to "make" society into some vision of how they think it should be. There's no way to engineer and control society to make everyone happy and solve their problems...

Politics is a never-ending struggle that can't be won, so at least grant everybody freedom from the coercion of others and let their own decisions determine their future rather than decisions made for them by some slimy politician.

I agree, but with a caveat. I do not believe that government has ever existed for the purpose of trying to make people happy or solve their problems. Whether or not a government claims to want to help people, it is a fraud. The government only wants to help itself.


When it claims it wants to help you make more money, it is actually because it wants a larger economy and more tax-revenue(the same principle applies to the Church as well).


Governments are like corporations. McDonald's might claim it wants to make you happy, but that is merely a marketing strategy. It may produce some study that says that people who eat at McDonald's once a year are happier than people who never eat at McDonald's. But on what basis would it ever finance or otherwise sanction such a study? For one purpose, greater profit.

General Motors might finance a study that claims that people who buy new cars are happier than people who buy used cars. Or that people who just drive cars are happier than people who don't. Or some other such conclusion. But does General Motors or McDonald's care whatsoever about your happiness?


Not only do they not care, but their conclusions are always biased and distorted in favor of what they wish their conclusion to be. In the exact same way that a study financed by the government will itself always be biased and distorted towards its desired conclusions, since it only finances those studies whose entire purpose is to prove a hypothesis which is favorable to the government.


If it served their purposes, McDonald's and GM would advocate for, or finance any number of studies which served their interests. Even if they knew the study's premise would necessarily produce biased results.

And what is true of McDonald's and GM, is equally true of your government. Except that the American people know that corporations are liars who will say anything and do anything that benefits them, while many Americans continue to naively believe that their government is their friend, regardless of the fact that they know their entire government is run by lairs and frauds. It is cognitive-dissonance at its most-obvious.
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Old 06-25-2016, 07:56 PM
 
Location: Madison, WI
5,301 posts, read 2,355,152 times
Reputation: 1229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
I agree, but with a caveat. I do not believe that government has ever existed for the purpose of trying to make people happy or solve their problems. Whether or not a government claims to want to help people, it is a fraud. The government only wants to help itself.


When it claims it wants to help you make more money, it is actually because it wants a larger economy and more tax-revenue(the same principle applies to the Church as well).


Governments are like corporations. McDonald's might claim it wants to make you happy, but that is merely a marketing strategy. It may produce some study that says that people who eat at McDonald's once a year are happier than people who never eat at McDonald's. But on what basis would it ever finance or otherwise sanction such a study? For one purpose, greater profit.

General Motors might finance a study that claims that people who buy new cars are happier than people who buy used cars. Or that people who just drive cars are happier than people who don't. Or some other such conclusion. But does General Motors or McDonald's care whatsoever about your happiness?


Not only do they not care, but their conclusions are always biased and distorted in favor of what they wish their conclusion to be. In the exact same way that a study financed by the government will itself always be biased and distorted towards its desired conclusions, since it only finances those studies whose entire purpose is to prove a hypothesis which is favorable to the government.


If it served their purposes, McDonald's and GM would advocate for, or finance any number of studies which served their interests. Even if they knew the study's premise would necessarily produce biased results.

And what is true of McDonald's and GM, is equally true of your government. Except that the American people know that corporations are liars who will say anything and do anything that benefits them, while many Americans continue to naively believe that their government is their friend, regardless of the fact that they know their entire government is run by lairs and frauds. It is cognitive-dissonance at its most-obvious.
Definitely agreed on that. Citizens are more like tax livestock for the state. Not that all the people in power see their subjects as "livestock", but the citizens are where they get their wealth and resources from. The farmer doesn't treat his animals and crops well because he really cares about them...they just produce more for him that way.

But yes, it's always interesting when people speak as if the state monopoly is different than a private company because "their job is to help society, not to make money"...like that in any way alters the motivations of the people involved.
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Old 06-27-2016, 06:51 PM
 
Location: Lyon, France, Whidbey Island WA
20,834 posts, read 17,102,752 times
Reputation: 11535
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
But what are the side effects?
The side effect of depression can be worse.
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Old 06-27-2016, 07:37 PM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,742,256 times
Reputation: 1336
There is no cure or fix for "humanness", that is the utter foolishness of "government". Humans are unique and beautiful creatures only because they have individual desires, interests, ideas, and beliefs. Freedom, the ability to express that innate individuality, is the only quintessential human trait. Government of all forms is a destroyer of freedom and thus humanity and any reason for humans to even exist in the first place. Without maximized freedom, humans are no better than insects...

But there is a "solution" to maximize freedom...obeying the non-aggression principle...
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Old 06-27-2016, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Texas
44,259 posts, read 64,365,577 times
Reputation: 73932
The problem is not that there isn't a solution. The problem is summed up here:
Attached Thumbnails
There are No Solutions-fb_img_1466774354621.jpg   There are No Solutions-fb_img_1466773995314.jpg  
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Old 06-27-2016, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Madison, WI
5,301 posts, read 2,355,152 times
Reputation: 1229
Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow View Post
There is no cure or fix for "humanness", that is the utter foolishness of "government". Humans are unique and beautiful creatures only because they have individual desires, interests, ideas, and beliefs. Freedom, the ability to express that innate individuality, is the only quintessential human trait. Government of all forms is a destroyer of freedom and thus humanity and any reason for humans to even exist in the first place. Without maximized freedom, humans are no better than insects...

But there is a "solution" to maximize freedom...obeying the non-aggression principle...
Ultimately, the dream scenario for any ruling class is for the citizens to be unthinking robots that do as they're told and don't do anything unpredictable.
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