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As I watch the US health insurance nightmare unfolding from overseas, I'm still baffled at how this seemingly great and powerful country is so stymied by a failure that even small countries abroad have almost universally figured out, even more so given the mounting evidence that the health care failure is destroying the skilled workforce base of the US economy. My husband and I traveled back to Taiwan to the office of his old company, to find about a half dozen new American workers (not all of them even Asian-American) who decided to post themselves up there permanently. A similar pattern down in Buenos Aires Argentina that we just left, and now in Italy that we were just posted to. Young Americans, professionals, very skilled, hard working and moving to start their own companies. Many reasons, obviously the job opportunities themselves a big factor.
But one thing we heard from everyone- a lot of relief that they never, ever have to worry about medical bills again, or going bankrupt from medical costs, all the time and hassle gone and taken care of. That peace of mind is worth a lot- you could say it's worth more than any monetary amount- and yet, the taxes in these countries really aren't that much higher than in the United States. The difference is, taxes in places like Taiwan, Argentina, Italy and France are used to provide basic services to the people, like health care and education, while the similar level of taxes in America- higher if you're doing your own business- don't go to help the American people at all. Instead it all goes to corruption, or war. This is what 3rd world countries look like. It might have been tolerable a decade ago, but US healthcare costs are so high, it's becoming intolerable, even for professionals and wealthy entrepreneurs, to afford US health insurance and childcare, while also paying high US taxes and getting nothing in return for those taxes. And the hemorrhage is only just starting.
So OP, it looks like it's not just Asian Americans, it's Americans from all stripes leaving the country, and going to Asia and places elsewhere for a similar reason. The broken, busted US health care system is probably a bigger reason for all this US emigration than may seem apparent at first. American professionals aren't going to put up with this system that bankrupts them, and makes it impossible to afford and raise kids, when there are better systems and opportunities in other countries. This is brain drain, and the US is now the victim.
As I watch the US health insurance nightmare unfolding from overseas, I'm still baffled at how this seemingly great and powerful country is so stymied by a failure that even small countries abroad have almost universally figured out, even more so given the mounting evidence that the health care failure is destroying the skilled workforce base of the US economy. My husband and I traveled back to Taiwan to the office of his old company, to find about a half dozen new American workers (not all of them even Asian-American) who decided to post themselves up there permanently. A similar pattern down in Buenos Aires Argentina that we just left, and now in Italy that we were just posted to. Young Americans, professionals, very skilled, hard working and moving to start their own companies. Many reasons, obviously the job opportunities themselves a big factor.
But one thing we heard from everyone- a lot of relief that they never, ever have to worry about medical bills again, or going bankrupt from medical costs, all the time and hassle gone and taken care of. That peace of mind is worth a lot- you could say it's worth more than any monetary amount- and yet, the taxes in these countries really aren't that much higher than in the United States. The difference is, taxes in places like Taiwan, Argentina, Italy and France are used to provide basic services to the people, like health care and education, while the similar level of taxes in America- higher if you're doing your own business- don't go to help the American people at all. Instead it all goes to corruption, or war. This is what 3rd world countries look like. It might have been tolerable a decade ago, but US healthcare costs are so high, it's becoming intolerable, even for professionals and wealthy entrepreneurs, to afford US health insurance and childcare, while also paying high US taxes and getting nothing in return for those taxes. And the hemorrhage is only just starting.
So OP, it looks like it's not just Asian Americans, it's Americans from all stripes leaving the country, and going to Asia and places elsewhere for a similar reason. The broken, busted US health care system is probably a bigger reason for all this US emigration than may seem apparent at first. American professionals aren't going to put up with this system that bankrupts them, and makes it impossible to afford and raise kids, when there are better systems and opportunities in other countries. This is brain drain, and the US is now the victim.
Thanks for your illuminating information on this and other forum topics, Tamara. Very eye-opening.
Thanks for your illuminating information on this and other forum topics, Tamara. Very eye-opening.
Gladly, there's a lot of misconceptions out there about other countries when so many commenters haven't been abroad, admittedly I bought into a lot of them myself before I had traveled and lived overseas more extensively, just doing my little share to help clear things up!
Asians make up less than 5% of the US population at the present time but this percentage is increasing.
Indians (considered Asian) are coming into the USA in large volumes on H1B visas each year and many stay forever and bring their spouse.
Yeah because of the invasion of poor people from Latin America. Kind of hard for them to get their foot in the door don't you think when you have one certain ethnic group sucking the country dry. Only 5 percent of the US population but 1/3 of the entire worlds population? Where's Obama on that? Oh that's right...he only cares about certain other skin colors, sorry.
Right you are, particularly in science, research and anything in STEM. The attitude in the USA to technical workers and scientists is that we're expendable and not sexy or "profitable" enough to actually pay a living wage, even with doctorates. So America traps its best trained workers in below minimum-wage adjuncts and postdoc positions while constantly whining we need to "pay our dues" as if busting our behinds to get an advanced degree, publish and innovate was just a matter of goofing around. I swear if one other idiot ever tells a doctorate-holder to "pay his dues" they need to be hanged on the spot. And all this while the cost of living in the US gets so crazy that even top engineers can't afford a dingy one room studio anymore.
Whereas in China and other Asian countries, people in STEM are paid well while the costs of living are lower. We're respected and compensated for the hard work and sacrifice we've put in to become experts at what we do. China and Asia are pulling ahead of America simply because they treat their tech people better. They certainly don't pay them peanuts while trotting out all the bull****e of a "talent shortage" to demand cheap labor visas to keep wages down even more.
Right you are, particularly in science, research and anything in STEM. The attitude in the USA to technical workers and scientists is that we're expendable and not sexy or "profitable" enough to actually pay a living wage, even with doctorates. So America traps its best trained workers in below minimum-wage adjuncts and postdoc positions while constantly whining we need to "pay our dues" as if busting our behinds to get an advanced degree, publish and innovate was just a matter of goofing around. I swear if one other idiot ever tells a doctorate-holder to "pay his dues" they need to be hanged on the spot. And all this while the cost of living in the US gets so crazy that even top engineers can't afford a dingy one room studio anymore.
Whereas in China and other Asian countries, people in STEM are paid well while the costs of living are lower. We're respected and compensated for the hard work and sacrifice we've put in to become experts at what we do. China and Asia are pulling ahead of America simply because they treat their tech people better. They certainly don't pay them peanuts while trotting out all the bull****e of a "talent shortage" to demand cheap labor visas to keep wages down even more.
Another amen to this, just encountered another example while on a business trip to Princeton of all places, a highly educated and otherwise very successful young researcher... being paid peanuts for high level work and, to add insult to injury, denied affordable health insurance for himself and his young wife-- he's in the middle of applying for grants that often have a 5% approval rate among an already highly selected group, and while he's waiting (and often even if he's among the lucky few to get the grant), there's no health insurance available without going broke from the ridiculous premiums and deductibles. WTF America?
It's like the United States these days is deliberately trying to get rid of its educated and professional population, I mean seriously? Not underpaying its top-educated scientists but exposing them to the risk of bankruptcy from medical bills in the insanely expensive health care mess of the country? A sensible system would make sure that everyone is covered without these idiotic gaps or reliance on more and more unstable employment. It should be little surprise that his case represents another casualty of US neglect of what should be its most prized workers-- he's leaving the country for Belgium later this year before settling in a permanent position in Hamburg Germany in 2018, after which he'll probably never return. (Germany = good tech salaries, universal health coverage with no bankruptcies, low cost college, 5 weeks vacation all for about the same or slightly lower total effective tax rate than the USA when you look at all the taxes, one of the benefits of being in a country that looks after its citizens rather than handing over its tax money to bankster cronies and imperial wars). And the politicians of both parties don't care, their nests are already feathered with all the corrupt bribery money they take in from their "donors".
To drive the point home about the mass insanity of US health insurance and healthcare again in case it wasn't already clear- a member of my extended family back in the US just started up a new job as a contractor with a family of 3 (his wife and daughter) to support. The monthly premium cost, for a very healthy young family? Almost $1,100, and this with a deductible of over $9,000! So let's get this straight, he's a young professional with a good job but just starting out with some student loans (scholarships kept it low), he his wife and daughter are in good health, yet they basically have to pay a second mortgage of over $13,000 per year in after-tax income to afford even basic health coverage, and even then, insurance covers nothing until they pay over $9,000 out of pocket, and with the inevitable costs of a recent baby girl, that means paying close to $23,000 every year in healthcare costs! And it could get worse, if they have an emergency out of their insurance company's network, it's even more healthcare costs. Despite this his taxes are still pretty high, right at the level of most European countries but he doesn't get anything for his taxes. And keep in mind this is for a generally fairly well off young family-- and Americans are expected to buy homes and support the economy when health care costs so much? Ridiculous!
He's also been looking at job opportunities in Asia, Australia, Europe and South America, and has already gotten several offers which he's now, for obvious reasons, almost certain to take up. He'll pay about the same taxes for his family as he does in the USA, or even lower in some parts of Europe and almost anywhere in South America or Asia, but by comparison to America where all those taxes seem to go to bankers and corruption, he'll actually get something for his taxes in the other countries, namely free healthcare and college for his kids, plus his wife will get a lot of maternal leave and low cost childcare if they have another child and they'll get 5 or 6 weeks vacation for him and when she returns to work. Anyone wondering why the brain drain out of America is getting worse and worse? This example gives an easy explanation of why. When you hand control of the government over to the most corrupt parasites who rip off the citizens and give nothing in return, you get brain drain.
And by the way, please no responses to effect of "this is the fault of Obamacare"-- this mess with health insurance was just as bad or worse before the ACA as after it. Obamacare hasn't fixed it but it's a deeper problem that goes back many years and neither of the two useless major parties has been able to do much of anything to fix it.
Last edited by PinayTamara; 02-26-2017 at 09:52 PM..
To drive the point home about the mass insanity of US health insurance and healthcare again in case it wasn't already clear- a member of my extended family back in the US just started up a new job as a contractor with a family of 3 (his wife and daughter) to support. The monthly premium cost, for a very healthy young family? Almost $1,100, and this with a deductible of over $9,000! So let's get this straight, he's a young professional with a good job but just starting out with some student loans (scholarships kept it low), he his wife and daughter are in good health, yet they basically have to pay a second mortgage of over $13,000 per year in after-tax income to afford even basic health coverage, and even then, insurance covers nothing until they pay over $9,000 out of pocket, and with the inevitable costs of a recent baby girl, that means paying close to $23,000 every year in healthcare costs! And it could get worse, if they have an emergency out of their insurance company's network, it's even more healthcare costs. Despite this his taxes are still pretty high, right at the level of most European countries but he doesn't get anything for his taxes. And keep in mind this is for a generally fairly well off young family-- and Americans are expected to buy homes and support the economy when health care costs so much? Ridiculous!
He's also been looking at job opportunities in Asia, Australia, Europe and South America, and has already gotten several offers which he's now, for obvious reasons, almost certain to take up. He'll pay about the same taxes for his family as he does in the USA, or even lower in some parts of Europe and almost anywhere in South America or Asia, but by comparison to America where all those taxes seem to go to bankers and corruption, he'll actually get something for his taxes in the other countries, namely free healthcare and college for his kids, plus his wife will get a lot of maternal leave and low cost childcare if they have another child and they'll get 5 or 6 weeks vacation for him and when she returns to work. Anyone wondering why the brain drain out of America is getting worse and worse? This example gives an easy explanation of why. When you hand control of the government over to the most corrupt parasites who rip off the citizens and give nothing in return, you get brain drain.
And by the way, please no responses to effect of "this is the fault of Obamacare"-- this mess with health insurance was just as bad or worse before the ACA as after it. Obamacare hasn't fixed it but it's a deeper problem that goes back many years and neither of the two useless major parties has been able to do much of anything to fix it.
Not trying to downplay the case you brought up in the least, but the $1100 per month and $9000 deductible you bring up for a family of 3-- as awful and unaffordable as that is already, I've heard even worse among some of my own associates. Much worse, and it's all over many states in the US, Red and Blue both. Americans simply can't afford the health insurance disaster in this country or the health care costs in general which have been completely disconnected from the most basic economic realities, so they're not having kids, not starting businesses and in general when they can, leaving the USA for other countries. This has nothing do with being unpatriotic, it's just the most basic economic reality. Even professionals can't afford a basic standard of living in the US when the health system is so completely corrupt and unhinged as to push them straight into poverty, and the political system is too stupid, corrupt and bought off by special interests to do anything about it.
Just heard from an old friend, a master level computer programmer who's between jobs. He just got accepted for a new position but that means several months in between without health insurance, leaving his wife and daughter terrified about potential medical bills in the interim. Not even 3rd world countries operate with such horrendous and stupid gaps in basic policy, and this gives another indication about why Asian-Americans and Americans in general are headed for the exits. They have options, and I suspect more and more of them don't want to be in a country that can't get its basic act together on such a fundamental issue.
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