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I personally am talking about any "interest" when dealing with the exchange of any form of money tokens from an ethical and economic reality standpoint. Not any "legal" definition.
You do realize, don't you, that lending money has risks to the lender. Why in the world would anyone lend money, which has risk, without reward?
Are those taking out loans forced to do so?
Are you paid for your work, or do you work for free?
You do realize, don't you, that lending money has risks to the lender. Why in the world would anyone lend money, which has risk, without reward?
Are those taking out loans forced to do so?
Are you paid for your work, or do you work for free?
I am a libertarian and thus do not advocate any initiations of force.
What risk do the Central Banking Families take by creating a dollar, loaning out ten dollars, and then demanding a repayment of $10.50 form the people?
They simply enslave the people to pay a debt that is impossible to ever repay. You cannot repay $10.50 when there is only $1 dollar introduced into the "economy".
And on the micro-economic scale that you seem to focus while blindly ignoring the reality on the macro-scale the same things apply. Where is your borrower getting the "extra" money to pay you "interest"? Someone somewhere is getting poorer while you get richer. Interest is a consolidation of wealth scheme used by those who wish to exploit others not by providing any service, labor, or good, but rather by taking advantage of others lack to make them poorer. "Money" does nothing, creates nothing, invests nothing, it is simply a medium of exchange. Exploitation is not aggression to be sure, but it is repugnant. However, this thread has mostly been about interest in general and how it applies to the entire scam of the monetary system that uses it. The impossibility to repay a fictional debt, how with interest (and partial reserve banking along with fiat currency) amounts to no more that perpetual slavery.
If you could answer how people repay $10.50 to the Central Banking Families when they "create" $1 that would be really helpful. But saying how it is good for you to exploit your neighbor for no other reason than you already have more than your neighbor and wish him to have even less does not change the reality of the macro problem of perpetual slavery to those who have a monopoly on currency creation.
In the end, interest, even at your level, is nothing more than an unbalanced "trade". You "invest" one value in an "exchange" and expect a greater value in return. Thus the one that you exploited, must exploit another to make the "trade" possible. And that next victim must exploit another...and so on down the line until there is a slave who cannot make an exchange with another. So at your level, meh, no big deal, I don't see the slave personally and I don't care.
But on the large scale we are all slaves to the Omnipotent Financier Class who creates all currency. We are just like kapo when we charge interest among each other serving those running the prison camp.
The fact is the heart of libertarianism is the concept of inalienable rights. A concept at least partially accepted by conservatives and liberals. Whenever you hear a liberal defending a woman's right to choose they are invoking the concept of inalienable rights. That there are certain rights that government should not be allowed to interfere with. The difference is conservatives and liberals tend to think inalienable rights are much more limited than libertarians do.
MINI MONEY PRIMER
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The following about money is only in reference to American law.
REAL MONEY - Money which has real metallic, intrinsic value as distinguished from paper currency, checks and drafts.
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p. 1264
MONEY - In usual and ordinary acceptation it means coins and paper currency used as a circulating medium of exchange, and does not embrace notes, bonds, evidences of debt, or other personal or real estate. Lane v. Railey, 280 Ky. 319, 133 S.W. 2d 74, 79, 81.
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p. 1005
NOTE - An instrument containing an express and absolute promise of signer (i.e. maker) to pay to a specified person or order, or bearer, a definite sum of money at a specified time. An instrument that is a promise to pay other than a certificate of deposit. U.C.C. 3-104(2)(d)
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p. 1060
FIAT MONEY. Paper currency not backed by gold or silver.
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. P.623
TENDER - An offer of money ... Legal tender is that kind of coin, money, or circulating medium which the law compels a creditor to accept in payment of his debt, when tendered by the debtor in the right amount.
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p. 1467
. . . . .
"Federal reserve notes are legal tender in absence of objection thereto."
MacLeod v. Hoover (1925) 159 La 244, 105 So. 305
All duly enumerated American socialists cannot object to the tender of the notes that THEY are obligated parties to. (thanks to FICA)
FRNs are NOT MONEY but are legal tender on the obligated party of those notes - the Federal government (12 USC Sec. 411) . . . AND the 320 million enumerated socialists (Social Security Act of 1935).
Recapping:
● Lawful money = gold / silver coin (aka real money)
● Money = lawful money or currency (i.e., certificates which are receipts for real money in the vault)
● Notes are not money, by law, nor are they "fiat" because they're debt (negative value)
Holding a note in your hand does not give it face value. It may be legal tender at face value to an obligated party on said note, but that does not give it value.
If you emit an IOU, "I, John Doe, owe the bearer one dollar," what value does it have? Did you give a dollar to the note holder? No. You gave nothing of value - only a promise to pay in the future. Not fiat. Minus one dollar.
Until the note is extinguished by redemption, it is a minus value.
• Fiat currency is not debt, is not minus, and is not redeemable.
• Notes are not fiat, being redeemable, in lawful money.
Repudiated notes of a bankrupted government underwritten by 320 million human resources, via FICA, are still not fiat.
BUT if you are an obligated party (via FICA) on said note, beware when the creditor comes after you and yours!
Money is an IOU based. What it is worth is the credibility of the lendee. We have had low inflation since the 80's. The Fed, after screwing up for 65 years, have done a decent job since 1978. I do not care a real lot if some people are making money as long as I am too. Borrowing at 3% and getting returns of 6% ain't bad at all.
I can take my paper currency and buy anything from a cheeseburger to an airplane with it. That is value.
Where do the "people" get the "money" to "repay" $10.50 when the Central Banking Families only "create" $1?
The Fed and banks are NOT the only source of our money. Congress and the Executive can create USD.
Not all people borrow money. Not all people continue to borrow their way through life. Not everyone is in debt above and beyond their capabilities. They might borrow more for convenience, and they might have sufficient reserves to not have borrowed in the first place. But when you are offered 0% interest loans, just about anyone might borrow.
All money is not loaned money. I owe about nothing to anyone and yet have a good deal of money.
Because if it is impossible to pay the fictional "debt" to the monopoly who "creates" currency, those who use the currency are perpetual slaves to their "debtors".
The Fed and banks are NOT the only source of our money. Congress and the Executive can create USD.
Not all people borrow money. Not all people continue to borrow their way through life. Not everyone is in debt above and beyond their capabilities. They might borrow more for convenience, and they might have sufficient reserves to not have borrowed in the first place. But when you are offered 0% interest loans, just about anyone might borrow.
All money is not loaned money. I owe about nothing to anyone and yet have a good deal of money.
You keep looking at this as if you are the "economy". The "people" are perpetually indebted, because of the impossibility of the "debt", to those who have a monopoly on "creating" currency.
Congress and the Executives can only "create" debt for the people. They do not create currency. The "government" borrows from the Central Banking Families to "create" money. Since we are all "human collateral", since 1913, on this fictional debt that can never be repaid, we are nothing more than slaves on their Plantation. And yes, those who have a monopoly on the creation of money ARE the SOURCE of ALL money.
Even if the "government" were the sole "creators" of currency, and "banking" as we know it still "legalized", it still would be a system whereby the creators would consolidate all wealth unto themselves for a non-service.
Congress DID have the Constitutional authority to create currency, but they gave away that monopoly to the Central Banking Families...until the people have a legal right to create money, they will always be slaves to those who can.
How do the people pay back a "debt" of $10.50 when the Central Banking Families only "created" $1. If they cannot, they are simply perpetual slaves.
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