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That and it was sloppily planned. They didn't seize all communications the first chance they had, or arrested the government. It seems they bombed the town that the President was staying at not long after he left. Which is another misstep. That should have been the first thing done. I also imagine that the level of violence towards protestors didn't endear many too them. The first reports were of people out there praising the military. After they starting opening fire that changed.
The very first thing they should have done was make sure they had Erdogan. That's the First Rule of Coups - first thing you do is grab the guy you're overthrowing. When I heard Erdogan was on a plane instead of tied to a chair in a basement room, I knew the coup was in trouble. Whether that was due to poor planning or hasty execution because they'd been blown, it's too soon to tell, but if if you boil it all down to one thing, that's the biggest reason it failed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by legalsea
Not supporting coups of democratically elected governments is US policy. Of course, we have supported coups overthrowing dictators, with mixed results.
Official policy, yes. But in practice, the US has supported (and even instigated) many coups against democratic governments. Chile, Guatemala, and Iran are 3 that come just off the top of my head, and I could probably come up with more pretty easily depending on how we were to define "democratically elected." Regime change has been the cornerstone of American foreign policy for the better part of the last century, and it's never been about politics or ideology - it's about increasing our influence in a certain part of the world, or ensuring profits for American businesses.
Unfortunately, we completely missed the boat on this one, and it will come back to hurt us very, very badly for decades to come. This was a tremendous opportunity that is now lost forever, and it will permanently affect the face of both Europe and the Middle East.
Yes, that's a brilliant analysis, and spot on. This was Turkey's last chance to pull itself back from an islamicist meltdown.
To me, the most ominous aspect of this is that it shows how far the population of Turkey has swung toward islamism. I think the plotters were hoping (and expecting) that a lot more people would stand up and support their effort to strengthen secular democracy, but when the horn went off, many more people than they expected took to the streets to support the radical islamic ideology of Erdogan. This is probably the most disturbing takeaway from the whole thing - Europe is now just years (or even months) away from having a full-blown radical islamic state within its boundaries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus
A Turkish minister is now saying the US is behind the coup.
Erdogan has demanded the US hand over Gulen "if the US is a strategic ally." The PM earlier stated Turkey is not a friend of the US.
Obama's been played for a fool by a bumpkin politician from a banana republic government yet again.
It is just a minister though; ministers in some countries have been known to make crazy, unsubstantiated comments. But jsut the fact someone made it is rather surprising, not that I believe it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch33
If you have a link to any statement at all by the coup plotters, please post it up.
At 17:15, July 15. The actual statement was up and translated, but for some reason it is not coming up on search results.
"Continuing to read the military's statement, the TRT announcer says Turkey's democratic and secular rule of law has been eroded by the current government, Reuters reports. The country is now run by a "peace council" that will ensure the safety of the population, the announcer adds. A new constitution will be prepared "as soon as possible"."
To me, the most ominous aspect of this is that it shows how far the population of Turkey has swung toward islamism. I think the plotters were hoping (and expecting) that a lot more people would stand up and support their effort to strengthen secular democracy, but when the horn went off, many more people than they expected took to the streets to support the radical islamic ideology of Erdogan. This is probably the most disturbing takeaway from the whole thing - Europe is now just years (or even months) away from having a full-blown radical islamic state within its boundaries.
I think there were a lot more military units originally involved, but they failed to carry out on their end either due to lack of subordinate support, or the coup was rushed ahead of time and they could not mobilize.
The military in Turkey is greatly respected, if there were in fact way more military units out and about, I think the majority of Turks would have went along with the coup. But when they went into the streets, they saw just how small of a force it is, and the fact a lot more military units were not on the side of the coup.
We are already at nearly 3000 military arrested, and it has only been a day.
To me, the most ominous aspect of this is that it shows how far the population of Turkey has swung toward islamism. I think the plotters were hoping (and expecting) that a lot more people would stand up and support their effort to strengthen secular democracy, but when the horn went off, many more people than they expected took to the streets to support the radical islamic ideology of Erdogan. This is probably the most disturbing takeaway from the whole thing - Europe is now just years (or even months) away from having a full-blown radical islamic state within its boundaries..
Even with this guy in power, Turkey is probably the least 'radical' muslim country on the planet.
Even with this guy in power, Turkey is probably the least 'radical' muslim country on the planet.
Removing him from power at this point in time would have been a disaster, not a fan of his but he was the elected leader.
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