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Old 07-25-2016, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
12,687 posts, read 6,701,079 times
Reputation: 6593

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The scale and cost of building enough Solar and Wind infrastructure to deal with our world's rapidly growing electrical power demands would be staggering. It's not even worth contemplating. And at the end of the day -- despite all the "boogie-man" stigma -- nuclear power is still the safest power option in existence. It kills and/or harms far fewer people than even solar and wind.

Trouble is, every other renewable source just isn't big enough. Every fossil fuel source will eventually run out. It's the only decent long term option we've got at this point.
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Old 07-25-2016, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
18,058 posts, read 10,263,318 times
Reputation: 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
The scale and cost of building enough Solar and Wind infrastructure to deal with our world's rapidly growing electrical power demands would be staggering. It's not even worth contemplating. And at the end of the day -- despite all the "boogie-man" stigma -- nuclear power is still the safest power option in existence. It kills and/or harms far fewer people than even solar and wind.

Trouble is, every other renewable source just isn't big enough. Every fossil fuel source will eventually run out. It's the only decent long term option we've got at this point.
The Washington Times? Heritage? Honest and unbiased source? Sure when hell freezes over.

You are not aware of Fukushima, Japan or Chernobyl?

Nothing in the present format of nuclear power is saleable for cause.

Renewable has now turned the corner in a number of places and will dominate the new sources. All over but the shouting. It does not have the capability to fully displace fossil but it will still dominate.
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Old 07-25-2016, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,300 posts, read 61,105,429 times
Reputation: 30212
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
I would think you are in the class that has it made in the present environment. Only better situation than yours would be someone living in the sticks on Haleakala.

The mass market however is the sun belt suburban roof top with more than enough sun energy available to make zero cost solar PV feasible. ie a roof top solar array can cost effectively pump as many kwhs into the utility system as it takes out. The cost of such systems late last year was about $3.50 per watt. That is about twice the utility cost of $1.77.
Every home in our township was approached by a company marketing 20-year lease contracts. Only one family in our town bit on that hook. Their net-metering system is the only home in our town with PVs actually on their roof, the only 'roof-top' setup I guess. Everyone else with solar power is off-grid or some variation of grid-tied, but not net-metering. The net-metering home still loses power every time the grid goes down.

I got quotes from two installers for net-metering systems. Off-grid turned out to be significantly less than net-metering.



Quote:
... Things like the panels and even much of the electronics are roughly equivalent. So why does roof top cost twice as much? Because the providers are spending about $1.50 for client acquisition and profit. And that cost at the moment is increasing partially offsetting the savings on hardware.
Every certified installer in this state is an equipment dealer. They only handle components that they sell. The collection of components they put into a system is 4X the price of a same size system bought online.

Separate from labor costs. [and electricians are forbidden from touching solar power systems, only certified installers can work on them. So only equipment dealers can do installs].



Quote:
.... So we have a bare knuckles war between the utilities and the roof top solar guys in the heart land of the best solar terrritory.
Everywhere but maybe the PNW is good solar territory.
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Old 07-25-2016, 05:52 PM
 
Location: louisville
4,754 posts, read 2,725,265 times
Reputation: 1721
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
The Washington Times? Heritage? Honest and unbiased source? Sure when hell freezes over.

You are not aware of Fukushima, Japan or Chernobyl?

Nothing in the present format of nuclear power is saleable for cause.

Renewable has now turned the corner in a number of places and will dominate the new sources. All over but the shouting. It does not have the capability to fully displace fossil but it will still dominate.
Ha. Prove it. Whats the KWH per hour for renewables vs fossil?

I'm all for them but at this time, besides not having the capacitance to store solar, their cost, without subsidy, isn't viable.
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Old 07-25-2016, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
37,300 posts, read 61,105,429 times
Reputation: 30212
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
The scale and cost of building enough Solar and Wind infrastructure to deal with our world's rapidly growing electrical power demands would be staggering. It's not even worth contemplating. And at the end of the day -- despite all the "boogie-man" stigma -- nuclear power is still the safest power option in existence. It kills and/or harms far fewer people than even solar and wind.
Since we continue to manufacture Nuclear Reactors every year, I must assume that eventually the public will come around to common sense.
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Old 07-25-2016, 06:36 PM
 
Location: New York Area
34,652 posts, read 16,697,613 times
Reputation: 29784
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Cleric View Post
Your review hints that you didn't actually read the article. It says nothing about the "naivete and inefficiency" of wind and solar. It suggests that they shouldn't be subsidized so much, as these subsidies have some unfortunate consequences.
I read the article in depth as well as others I referenced. My convictions in this area are informed and quite deep. The article doesn't use the words "naive" or "inefficient." Those are my own words.
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Old 07-25-2016, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
18,058 posts, read 10,263,318 times
Reputation: 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stymie13 View Post
Ha. Prove it. Whats the KWH per hour for renewables vs fossil?

I'm all for them but at this time, besides not having the capacitance to store solar, their cost, without subsidy, isn't viable.
NV Energy recently reported signing a PPA for the 100 MW output of First Solar’s Playa Solar 2 installation at $0.0387/kWh after paying at $0.046/kWh for the output of SunPower’s 100 MW Boulder Solar installation last year. The utility bought utility-scale solar power for an average of $0.1377 per kWh for solar generation over the course of 2014.
There is reality. Before and after.
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Old 07-26-2016, 12:11 AM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
29,184 posts, read 22,227,289 times
Reputation: 23813
Impractical?
An airplane just flew around the world nonstop with nothing but solar and wind power.

I don't think impractical is the right word. The sun and the wind are the 2 most reliable energy sources of all, and neither will ever be depleted.

And neither solar nor wind technology is in their infancies any longer. Both are young, but they're up and walking, and will only become better, faster and more implemented with every advancement. There will be many, many advancements to come in both.
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Old 07-26-2016, 11:47 AM
 
3,792 posts, read 2,371,857 times
Reputation: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ContrarianEcon View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dv1033 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
CO2 ain't pollution.
Where do you think smog and air pollution comes from?
free radical hydrocarbons, O3, NOx, water vapor to make the chemistry work, particulates to act as a reaction surface, and UV to pump the chemical reactions.


Absent from the list is CO2. Chemically stable and not reactive.
Yet, there is a lot of smog in developing countries and even a bit still in America. Lower emissions and you lower pollution and mitigate adding more greenhouse gases. Therefore, lowering co2 also lowers immediate effects of air pollution like smog. Understand what is going on?
Where do I think smog and air pollution comes from?


Smog from the incomplete combustion of carbonaceous substances and the fixing of nitrogen as part of combustion. Air pollution? many sources. I lot of them natural.


Your assertion that reducing co2 emissions leads directly to reducing air pollution doesn't necessarily hold.


CO2 emissions is a result of economic activity. Reduce economic activity and you reduce the extra available for clean burning technology. Clean burning tech is very expensive. Dirty tech is cheap.


Your answer implied that CO2 was a player in smog. It isn't, not directly. A weed eater is far more polluting than a late model car on a per-hour of utilization basis. Even though the car burns far more fuel than the weed eater does in the same amount of time.
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Old 07-26-2016, 01:30 PM
 
Location: New York Area
34,652 posts, read 16,697,613 times
Reputation: 29784
Quote:
Originally Posted by ContrarianEcon View Post
CO2 emissions is a result of economic activity. Reduce economic activity and you reduce the extra available for clean burning technology. Clean burning tech is very expensive. Dirty tech is cheap.

Your answer implied that CO2 was a player in smog. It isn't, not directly. A weed eater is far more polluting than a late model car on a per-hour of utilization basis. Even though the car burns far more fuel than the weed eater does in the same amount of time.
You nailed it. The Kyoto transfer payment mechanism, really the key itme in that treaty taxes economic activity to pay to rulers of countries, for the benefit of Swiss bank accounts and armaments, of countries with little or no economic activity.

I repped this post.
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