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Old 07-25-2016, 12:51 PM
Location: USA
19,798 posts, read 14,717,027 times
Reputation: 12769


Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
How about we start considering American families instead? They need their jobs back. If illegal families are allowed to remain here how does that fix that problem? Why would the families have to be broke up anyway? They can all return to their homelands together, family intact. They're all undesirables none of them had any respect for our immigration laws and thought nothing of stealing an American's SS number to work or work under the table evading taxes. Those are felonies!

We already have several work visas we don't need anymore with 23 million unemployed Americans. Allowing them to remain here negates our annual quotas for legal immigration which are in place for good reasons.
"stealing an American's SS number to work or work under the table evading taxes. Those are felonies!"
They conveniently leave this fact out.

Old 07-25-2016, 12:53 PM
3,217 posts, read 1,721,748 times
Reputation: 1842
The number one responsibility of our commander in chief is national security. He needs to make sure that we identify anyone coming into this country and make sure they are not a threat. If they are vetted properly, we welcome them.
Old 07-25-2016, 01:43 PM
2,412 posts, read 1,324,963 times
Reputation: 5744
I agree .. I think (unless I misinterpret your original post - I took so long to write this that there are now many others above mine .. sorry, I may indeed be off track here). I hope though that I don't go too far off track in my response .. this is a complex topic in my humble opinion.

I don't however think the choice for some is between 'right' and 'legal'. I think it is often a selfish choice that they justify by quoting passages to make themselves feel 'right'.

There is a big difference between legal and illegal immigration. That passage from Leviticus in today's world should refer only to legal 'immigrants' (or 'visitors' who intend to leave when their 'welcome' expires and who came in legally) in my view but some 'choose' to be obtuse about the realities of life today vis a vis that of the times in which the Bible was written. Theirs is their interpretation .. primarily because, knowingly or unknowingly, it promotes their own personal aims. It makes them 'superior' to those who don't view illegals the same way .. and it makes them 'feel good'. Nothing altruistic there at all.

I have a number of very active, dedicated United Methodists in my own family. Believe me, they all go to Star Island every summer for 're-education camp'. In their eyes, they walk the walk but there is no way to even talk to them any more. They are cult-like in my opinion. Incredibly well educated and yet dumb as doornails on this (and most other) subjects.

One can be kind and generous and compassionate without being stupid and jeopardizing the lives of many others in the process of concentrating on one warped ideal. They ignore that fact, on purpose. And, I notice that they only want to be compassionate as long as that doesn't mean actually giving up their own comfortable lifestyles - the house in the genteel neighbourhood, the trips abroad to 'learn' about history and to admire the sights despite seeing the masses huddled on the streets (they bring back pictures of the sights, none of the poor, and rhapsodize about their learning experiences - like about how the pyramids were constructed or how they loved the food), the activities, the ability to brag about how they 'helped' the underdog, etc. when in fact they did little more than make expensive ventures from their sheltered, safe neighbourhood to 'admire' the ghettos from a safe distance and occasionally pretend to hug the masses so they can proselytize to all who will listen. Not one has actually taken an illegal immigrant into their own homes. But they will laud the praises of refugees and illegal aliens and say they love the 'diversity'.

They will verbally embrace them all (and demand the greater 'we' DO something to help) while doing nothing that really shakes up their own worlds. Hypocrisy at its worst (or is that best?). They choose to be obtuse when it comes to what (legal) 'immigrant' means. In fact, from my observation they tend to focus ONLY on the illegal and not the legal immigrant. They have drunk the Kool-aid - but that doesn't mean they are right. It just makes them feel better about themselves. It is too bad they are alienating themselves from those in their own family who used to truly care about them in order to push the distorted and badly interpreted passages from their so-called faith on everyone else. (I gave up years ago trying to 'communicate' with them - but I still get a 'family' email once a month wherein they regale us with their personal and church related activities so I still get to read how their 'disease' has progressed over the years as a result. Their kids are carrying on the tradition as well now.)

But, the way I see it (and I guess to them I am a heathen), there is a big difference between 'legal' and 'illegal'. If not then why have terms/laws to address each status differently at all?

Of course, the ultimate aim of those who see the world so differently than I do (and that includes the UM 'church' and my relatives) is to remove those differences - and eventually make us (and everyone in the world - well .. everyone except themselves - the elite never imagine 'they' would be involved other than to rule the masses from their ivory towers ) boringly homogeneous (and therefore completely controllable), isn't it? Level the playing field, make us all the 'same' colour/race/creed/religion/culture/socio-economic status, bring down everyone to a level that makes us all 'equal' from birth to death and remove any semblance of thought or logical reasoning from us. They aspire to make us all 'ticky tacky'! Are you old enough to remember the song? Not sure they even realize that - the fundamental UM people that is - but that is where we are heading if we all acted as they do.

But, back to immigration .. which is a critical part of the above goal ... Why make honest, law abiding people jump through (years of) hoops and often spend vast amounts of money to come legally (not to mention why bother having customs/immigration people/crossing facilities at all either) when some applaud anyone who wants to sneak into the country, no matter their reasons, no matter their ability or interest in contributing to the country in a positive way, and perhaps even so they can make their own 'sovereign' country larger in the end through devious and often dangerous means? Why support them when they often make no effort to support themselves and many actually delight in 'using' us?

Sovereignty is crucial to any nation. No sovereignty ... no nation. Is removing sovereignty the end goal? If so .. then why? I would suggest it is the above - make us all 'equal'(ly poor and downtrodden). Does that ultimately jive with God's will? I don't think so but I think, if one analyzes what the UM church promotes, it is what they envision. Is that intentional or driven by naivety and 'belief' in their own path to heaven? Who knows but it is dangerous.

While I know there are many illegals who are indeed hardworking and worthy of consideration for legal status of some kind eventually if we can work out a way for that to happen that reasonably protects all current citizens and future legal immigrants, embracing the illegals as though they were not only the same but better even than other real citizens, is the very worst way to go about 'fixing' the situation.

It is one thing to look at the immigration system as a whole to see if it is fair. It is one thing to lobby for someone who tried to come in legally and for some reason was refused or could not financially sustain their application for a lengthy period and consequently had to give up the fight. It is quite another to just open the borders to all and sundry and give them everything we have (or ask others to support them financially) without even having any idea of whether they are criminals or even stand a chance of assimilating. That is just not SMART or rational. It will not end well for anyone. It is a backwards move, not 'progressive' (despite the meaning of that word that language morph-ers would deliberately ascribe). But some people insist this is the 'right' thing to do and quote the bible as though they had no brains of their own to reason with any more. Cult behaviour! And to my mind, being a good Christian does not demand that one embrace the enemy at the cost of one's friends and/or follow each other blindly over the cliff.

Personal opinion (but it comes from personal experience). YMMV.

Last edited by Aery11; 07-25-2016 at 01:53 PM..
Old 07-25-2016, 01:56 PM
Location: San Diego
35,233 posts, read 32,197,534 times
Reputation: 19766
Originally Posted by LS Jaun View Post
"stealing an American's SS number to work or work under the table evading taxes. Those are felonies!"
They conveniently leave this fact out.
So long as we enforce our new gun laws like we do immigration laws, I'm down.
Old 07-25-2016, 02:08 PM
3,217 posts, read 1,721,748 times
Reputation: 1842
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
So long as we enforce our new gun laws like we do immigration laws, I'm down.
We should first start enforcing our old gun laws..... and our old immigration laws.
Old 07-25-2016, 02:57 PM
3,945 posts, read 3,266,434 times
Reputation: 11331
No one in this government will ever lift a finger to ameliorate the imbalance in our nations work to workers ratio. Big business has let their desires be known, and the circus performers we call our leaders will never ever go against them. Get ready for a new America, and the foreigners presence will be the least of what we will suffer..Better for the "system" to have a standing army of the unemployed as a "backup" to any thoughts American workers may have regarding the possibility of organizing their collective power.
Old 07-25-2016, 05:52 PM
Location: In a chartreuse microbus
3,855 posts, read 5,308,364 times
Reputation: 8023
The immigration problems in America can be solved by enforcing the laws already in place. These laws provide for a much smoother transition than sneaking around and hiding under the radar. No one wants to wait, or go through the process. These laws provide protection and help for those who use them.

Plus, I know so many families who are taking in their own relatives to survive in this economy. Who has the extra to support illegals?
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