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Old 07-28-2016, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
13,746 posts, read 9,859,499 times
Reputation: 9868

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
Nowhere in there does it say you have the "right to work". That is YOUR interpretation.
The supreme court agrees with me.
‘The right to follow any of the common occupations of life is an inalienable right…’ And ‘It has been well said that ‘the property which every man has in his own labor, as it is the original foundation of all other property, so it is the most sacred and inviolable. The patrimony of the poor man lies in the strength and dexterity of his owns hands, and to hinder his employing this strength and dexterity in what manner he thinks proper, without injury to his neighbor, is a plain violation of this most sacred property.’’
- - - U.S. Supreme Court, Butcher’s Union Co. v Crescent City Co., 111 U.S. 746 (1883)
= = = =
If I may paraphrase - the right to life includes the right to support that life with harmless activity - and that right is an endowed / inherent / sacred right - NOT - a government privilege to be granted or withheld.

= = = =
Still unconvinced?
"The right to labor and to its protection from unlawful interference is a constitutional as well as a COMMON-LAW RIGHT. Every man has a natural right to the fruits of his own industry."
- - - 48 Am Jur 2d, Section 2, p. 80
The right to labor is a common-law right not to be interfered with.

Of course, those who consent to be governed, may have surrendered / waived / abrogated their endowed rights.
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Old 07-28-2016, 06:18 PM
 
24,089 posts, read 11,968,087 times
Reputation: 10255
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post
This goes on and on at this group. Did anyone ever think all the work these people do that YOU and ME do not want to do.

For starters, picking produce in the ag fields of our country. And many die from heat stroke and horrible back issues and knee issues from being in the ground picking OUR FOODS.

Our landscaper/gardner works around our bldg twice a week and does me favors and I will give him a little cash now and then, which he refuses but I push it in his pocket. He is the best person and never a complaint.

Then, just talking to my neighbor who has to be in a rehab facility now going on a month as she fell and broke her shoulder. Who do you think works around the clock in those facilities, people from so many parts of the world...doing so much dirty work that WE do not want to do. Cleaning up s**t, changing adult diapers, helping people walk....You want to do this kind of work?

Then there are a ones who are hired to clean houes, clean toilets, take care of children.

Stop and think about this all you spoiled americans and STOP the bashing. Be thankful when you spend your unemployment and welfare checks and spend your food stamps.
Prison labor can work the fields cheaper.

People should mow their own lawns and take care of their own children and clean their own houses.
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Old 07-28-2016, 06:48 PM
 
52,014 posts, read 41,851,918 times
Reputation: 32456
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaminhealth View Post
This goes on and on at this group. Did anyone ever think all the work these people do that YOU and ME do not want to do.

For starters, picking produce in the ag fields of our country. And many die from heat stroke and horrible back issues and knee issues from being in the ground picking OUR FOODS.

Our landscaper/gardner works around our bldg twice a week and does me favors and I will give him a little cash now and then, which he refuses but I push it in his pocket. He is the best person and never a complaint.

Then, just talking to my neighbor who has to be in a rehab facility now going on a month as she fell and broke her shoulder. Who do you think works around the clock in those facilities, people from so many parts of the world...doing so much dirty work that WE do not want to do. Cleaning up s**t, changing adult diapers, helping people walk....You want to do this kind of work?

Then there are a ones who are hired to clean houes, clean toilets, take care of children.

Stop and think about this all you spoiled americans and STOP the bashing. Be thankful when you spend your unemployment and welfare checks and spend your food stamps.
Ever taken an economics class? Didn't think so.

There is NO job that would go unfilled, instead wages would rise until it was.

Meanwhile, blue collar wages in the US have been clobbered over the last 10-20 years....because of the on-shoring of lots and lots of cheap illegal labor.

The whole myth that we won't do those jobs is a complete load of crap.

What is DOES do is make life easier for people with good educations and money like myself (and it sounds like you).

Frankly, it's insulting that you march in here spouting this crap and it sounds like they are pushing down wages for you either. You enjoy the benefits but have never had your wages impacted by people in that economic class.

We aren't saying your gardener or the person at the retirement home is a bad person or any of that. We are pointing out that SUPPLY AND DEMAND which apparently doesn't function in your universe has pushed down wages for less educated americans.

But hey, your gardener is a nice guy so it's all-right I suppose.
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Old 07-29-2016, 07:39 AM
 
14,298 posts, read 8,119,280 times
Reputation: 4247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Ever taken an economics class? Didn't think so.

There is NO job that would go unfilled, instead wages would rise until it was.
That is not always true. Some of the jobs I used to see young high school kids do are gone. No one fills my gas tank, checks my tires, my oil, my wipers, or cleans my car's windshield but me. I have not been to a movie theater anymore that had an usher.

There are plenty of jobs that low, or no skilled workers used to do, that no one is doing anymore, because it became too costly to pay that minimum wage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Meanwhile, blue collar wages in the US have been clobbered over the last 10-20 years....because of the on-shoring of lots and lots of cheap illegal labor.

The whole myth that we won't do those jobs is a complete load of crap.

What is DOES do is make life easier for people with good educations and money like myself (and it sounds like you).

Frankly, it's insulting that you march in here spouting this crap and it sounds like they are pushing down wages for you either. You enjoy the benefits but have never had your wages impacted by people in that economic class.

We aren't saying your gardener or the person at the retirement home is a bad person or any of that. We are pointing out that SUPPLY AND DEMAND which apparently doesn't function in your universe has pushed down wages for less educated americans.

But hey, your gardener is a nice guy so it's all-right I suppose.
Illegal immigration, and the cheap wages these people will work for, has taken away a lot of jobs that Americans used to raise families with. A lot of tech jobs are given to H1B visa holders, and once again, Americans used to do those jobs.

The problem is the out of work Americans who are negatively impacted by the laws and policies coming out of our corrupt government, cannot compete with the deep pockets corporations and their campaign donations to buy the loyalty of those politicians.

For the Democrats, it's a win-win. They get more donations and power from the greedy corporations to allow more illegal immigrants, and the dems get to look like they care about the poor minority immigrants, and own these people, and their votes.
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Old 07-29-2016, 08:26 AM
 
Location: The Windy City
5,300 posts, read 3,313,983 times
Reputation: 4513
Who do you think did these jobs before the immigrants came here?

The only reason so many immigrants take these jobs is because they are illegal, and getting paid under the table is the only way for them to make money. Most of them aren't paid hourly, but by amount/weight of produce picked.

If these companies had to hire legal workers, they'd have to start paying fairly.
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Old 07-29-2016, 08:46 AM
 
11,680 posts, read 7,059,219 times
Reputation: 6387
Quote:
Originally Posted by lepoisson View Post
Who do you think did these jobs before the immigrants came here?

The only reason so many immigrants take these jobs is because they are illegal, and getting paid under the table is the only way for them to make money. Most of them aren't paid hourly, but by amount/weight of produce picked.

If these companies had to hire legal workers, they'd have to start paying fairly.
Around here landlords will say "find a Mexican" when it comes to plenty of housing update/repair/remodel tasks. Why is that? Probably because they'll work for a daily cash rate that's half of what a US citizen would want. They of course don't carry insurance or pay any taxes so $10/hr is good money for them (plus their satisfactory standard of living is pretty low).
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Old 07-29-2016, 08:49 AM
 
4,292 posts, read 1,862,006 times
Reputation: 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by lepoisson View Post
The only reason so many immigrants take these jobs is because they are illegal, and getting paid under the table is the only way for them to make money. Most of them aren't paid hourly, but by amount/weight of produce picked.
Aren't the vast majority of the farmers who own the land and the crops Rebulicans? Why are they enabling these illegals if the Republican platform is to stop illegal immigration. Their seems to be a hypicroacy within the party. Want to stop illegals from working in the fields? Don't pay them.

I'm all for stopping illegal immigration by the way. But it is only going to happen by two methods. 1. We refuse to hire/pay them. or 2. We build a wall.

I guess we are too dumb to figure out the cheaper option 1. So we will go ahead and go with the more expensive option 2.
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Old 07-29-2016, 09:00 AM
 
Location: The Windy City
5,300 posts, read 3,313,983 times
Reputation: 4513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill the Butcher View Post
Aren't the vast majority of the farmers who own the land and the crops Rebulicans? Why are they enabling these illegals if the Republican platform is to stop illegal immigration. Their seems to be a hypicroacy within the party. Want to stop illegals from working in the fields? Don't pay them.

I'm all for stopping illegal immigration by the way. But it is only going to happen by two methods. 1. We refuse to hire/pay them. or 2. We build a wall.

I guess we are too dumb to figure out the cheaper option 1. So we will go ahead and go with the more expensive option 2.
This will never happen, but a really easy way to eliminate illegal immigration is to eliminate physical currency. You need a SSN to get a bank account. Illegals won't have a bank account, so there will be no way to pay them, except by trading labor for physical items.

Actually, as technology progresses, I could see physical currency disappearing anyways.
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Old 07-29-2016, 10:14 AM
 
14,298 posts, read 8,119,280 times
Reputation: 4247
Quote:
Originally Posted by lepoisson View Post
Who do you think did these jobs before the immigrants came here?

The only reason so many immigrants take these jobs is because they are illegal, and getting paid under the table is the only way for them to make money. Most of them aren't paid hourly, but by amount/weight of produce picked.

If these companies had to hire legal workers, they'd have to start paying fairly.
...and labor costs are a small percentage of the final consumer price we pay. Actually paying people a fair wage and / or automating some of the harvesting would not significantly increase the prices we pay.

And just think of all the taxes we would not be paying government to clothe, house, feed and care for illegal aliens. not to mention the crime illegals visit on Americans and the corresponding costs for their incarceration.

Yeah, paying a fair wage to harvest crops, and the small impact to our pocket books that would make, pales in comparison to the billions we pay in other ways, all because of illegal immigration.
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Old 07-29-2016, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas/SF Peninsula/South Lake Tahoe
2,049 posts, read 1,334,360 times
Reputation: 1340
Title notes everything that one is require to know . . . "Non-Americans"
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