U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Should marijuana be legal, federal level.
Yes, I am liberal. 25 17.01%
No, I am liberal. 1 0.68%
Yes, I am conservative. 36 24.49%
No, I am conservative. 10 6.80%
Yes, I do not identify as liberal or conservative. 63 42.86%
No, I do not identify as liberal or conservative. 12 8.16%
Voters: 147. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-27-2016, 07:38 PM
 
3,792 posts, read 1,892,180 times
Reputation: 767

Advertisements

16% think keep it illegal as I write this
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-27-2016, 07:42 PM
 
2,612 posts, read 1,117,551 times
Reputation: 3449
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnTrips View Post
Its about the only time I've seen Cons and Libs on CD come close to agreeing on anything.
You can't be a TRUE Conservative or Liberal if you think cannabis should be illegal.

It's not possible. Goes against both ideals.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2016, 08:10 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
14,375 posts, read 7,970,322 times
Reputation: 6636
Originally Posted by Rescue3
That is the only reason marijuana has never been approved at the federal level as a drug. No one can show that it works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raddo View Post
Wow, are you misguided or what?[a] All you have to do to find that you are absolutely wrong about that is FOLLOW THE MONEY.

]I have a feeling that in reality [b]you are not misguided , or it's just that you have an agenda[c] (as in, you work you law enforcement or the prison industry).
[a] The poster is absolutely misguided, either intentionally or ignorantly.

[b]Could be a lawyer, parole officer, prison guard, criminal psychologist, drug rehab professional, and any of the numerous industries which are vampires who leech the system because of this war on citizens. [c]Or, believes the nonsense the establishment dictated to their crony politicians based on protectionism.

We know now that DuPont feared cannabis strong natural fibers would derail his newly discovered synthetic fibers (nylon), so through Randolph Hearst media manipulation (sound familiar?) and their puppet Aslinger, they successfully lied to congress who then made it illegal; all they needed was this absolutely ridiculous movie:



Produced by George Hirliman, who became quite the propagandist for hire leading up to WWII. See also Yellow Cargo and Navy Spy. Lovely.

But of course, they also caused a shortage of rope which the Navy desperately needed (unexpected consequences) so for several years it became a national program which actually required farmers to grow cannabis... after the war was over, it reverted right back to being illegal. Anyone remember that epidemic of farmers going mad on the reefer they grew? No? Hmm

Isn't ulterior motives, ignorance, dishonestly, racism, corporate agendas and social steering grand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ContrarianEcon View Post
If you want a reform party started then this is the one issue to get it going with.
The population is doing the reforming themselves. There's no need for a party to get this done. We have now tipped to more than half the states having legal medical, and when CA passes rec laws in November... IT'S GONNA BE DONE once and for all, and there won't be a damn thing McCarthy... I mean Christie can do about it if he sadly manages to make it to the AG throne.

Last edited by steven_h; 07-27-2016 at 08:33 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2016, 08:14 PM
 
Location: zooland 1
3,744 posts, read 3,420,688 times
Reputation: 5516
Quote:
Originally Posted by jburress View Post
I agree with:




No idea what "granny twelve plant" means, so I can't comment. I even googled the term and nothing came up.
Granny twelve plant is a term that pro mj folks came up with to describe poor granny needing mj medicine to stay alive... It became a rallying call for full legalization by big mj money in California... There were hundreds of public meetings where Pro mj folks would cry about how poor granny was dying because of the actions of the nasty government and corrupt legislature... Their words not mine ..and I paraphrase.

It became adopted in California counties one by one..I think most California counties now have some parts of it in their marijuana county ordinances. It came about because citizens were screaming for some sanity in the wave of dope that overran California before other states began doing aspects of legalization. The billion dollar plus industry illegal and legal overwhelmed small counties with drugs cartels violence and environmental damage... And so the citizens said enough..do something.

Granny twelve plant was a cobbled together group of building codes... Environmental law..hazmat law.. into one cohesive ordinance that codified how a medical patient could grow their own "medicine"
Generally twelve plants were deemed enough...
Up to five pounds a plant on the top end and up to 16000 joints on the top end for a very adept grower using all the tricks.. lighting and CO 2 hormones... Cloning.. etc. Everything perfectly... And yes I have personally seen green Christmas mj trees in some grow rooms so it's absolutely possible...refer to any good mj magazine which will show a user how.
To date full compliance has never been met.. some of the counties are very strict..no outdoor grows.. permitted building with lights alarms filters for air and water and power. The standard grow room uses six times the power of. One single family home...water can be five gallons a day in an illegal outdoor grow and the chemicals released have chased millions of dollars of environmental damage. The Registered grow indoor has inspection ability by a public resource officer and Leo. You cannot grow for someone else and you cannot sell it... Again..no compliance yet...but it's becoming and when enacted really helps tamp down the gross complaints that cone from communities affected by mass wusnyitiyes of drugs...and worse..drug behavior ... Which was all negative.

It became so strict because none of the promises made by drug growers proved to be true or kept...and so the laws kept ramping up and getting stricter. Any potential federal legalization won't change this one bit... Local control will always be allowed to make a law stricter.

I'll get you a link if you want to read the specifics...

I see a rocky twenty years ahead with lot of back and forth... What comes out the other end holds one certain fact

A nation less enabled...and if the numbers are right one third of the population using marijuana to some extent..and ten plus percent of those being severely afflicted by its use...

I feel proud to have represented my community on an advisory committee for our county ordinances... And getting it passed by a plurality of the voters...battling the ACLU and the deep pockets of large mj money. The ninth circuit has already upheld the challenges o it is the law of the land..now and into the future.

Each community in America will have to come with grips of this..including all who say no big deal...when the skunk weed is hangingng over your fence and the tar is dripping off the plants while your kids are playing in the backyard....when there is drug traffic at all hours of the day. When the welfare collectors are still collecting and all of a sudden driving new cars... You'll care...

There is another poster who talks about hemp and mj...distant cousins... I invite you to smoke hemp anytime you like...lets see how that works..this should be good

Last edited by notmeofficer; 07-27-2016 at 08:35 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2016, 08:25 PM
 
Location: Austin
29,546 posts, read 16,499,308 times
Reputation: 8087
Quote:
Originally Posted by peequi View Post
Should marijuana be legal, federal level?.
The government should not tell me what I can eat, drink or smoke. End of story.

BTW, Obama can legalize marijuana with one stroke of his pen.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2016, 08:27 PM
 
3,144 posts, read 888,188 times
Reputation: 2472
Quote:
Originally Posted by steven_h View Post
Isn't ulterior motives, ignorance, dishonestly, racism, corporate agendas and social steering grand?
It reminds me of a movie I saw the other day: Tucker: The Man and His Dream

It's a true story of an entrepreneur who managed to design and produce a car that could rival the Big 3 automaker's cars. He was brought down by the government, even demonized and put on trial. I've not heard anyone dispute the part of the movie that shows the senator from Michigan abusing his power to make sure Tucker is brought down.

That was the 1940's, and nothing has changed. We continue to be ignorant to and/or accept all the corruption. I am convinced, in fact, that the only reason we are still having to use fossil fuels for transportation is because of the power and money wielded by Big Oil.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2016, 08:42 PM
 
Location: Secure, Undisclosed
1,984 posts, read 1,294,444 times
Reputation: 3703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raddo View Post
It isn't hatred, I am just trying to do the same thing as you -- educate you. I realize that isn't possible, so I promise I will beat my head against a brick wall once for each keystroke I waste here. And regardless of your pedigree, I want you to know that I have 45 years of direct, daily experience with the plant, with 20 years of research under my belt to boot.

You are so locked into your view that you can't see the gridlock. You are trying to educate us on how a drug gets FDA approval. We get that. But every drug that has ever been studied and approved was NOT a federally banned Schedule I substance! And while you say you realize that, you still seem to think the only way it will be legalized (taken off of Schedule I) is through the normal FDA process. Unbelievable.

The good news is that the DEA is already in the process of getting it rescheduled, which will make this part of our discussion moot anyway. My personal opinion is that the DEA will get it rescheduled before Obama leaves office. We'll see.

The other point in which we have contention is that you still seem believe that cannabis truly has no medical properties simply because there are no US-based studies that have been submitted and approved by the US government. We have already determined that is an impossible feat until it is removed from Schedule I, so are you saying that despite unmistakable proof otherwise from offshore research, that you still stand by that statement?

There may be a fundamental disagreement we have that will make all these wasted keystrokes even more wasted. That is the fact that once it is legalized, Big Pharma can of course come out with and market their own products, but in reality, most people that have a condition that can be treated by cannabis will find a strain that works for them, then grow their own. Big Pharma knows billions will be lost in prescription sales because of this, with absolutely nothing they can do about it. Big Money from Big Pharma (and other Big Industries) is the main reason the government locked the lid down so tightly on research, decades ago.

If you do not believe that Big Money from Big Industry has been the main motivation behind the government's over-zealous demonizing of this plant, including draconian punishment and an air-tight lid on research, for the last 40 years, then we have reached an impasse that makes it impossible to proceed with our discussion.
I appreciate that you have studied this plant forever. Great! Sponsor it!

That it is currently Schedule I is not an absolute bar to testing it. Whoever told you that is mistaken. I've seen the trial results of studies done here in the US using marijuana on humans. No one went to jail. (The studies, however, weren't particulary successful.) Heck, you can do a Medline search and find a dozen such studies yourself.

I have no earthly idea whether or not marijuana is safe and effective in treating... anything. I rather suspect it is, but I haven't seen the studies that show it. Until the drug is approved, matters relating to it tended not to cross my desk.

FDA accepts offshore studies every single day of the week. As long as they are (a) performed to FDA standards, and (b) submitted to the agency, there isn't an issue. I can name a bunch of drugs approved based primarily on overseas trials and usage - and a few that weren't (Thalymide cames to mind...). The problem is that they are rarely submitted to the FDA. If a sponsor does not submit them to the Agency, FDA can't evaluate them.

I'm not locked into any belief. This thread, however, is about why it isn't approved in the US. The simple answer is that no sponsor has come forward and proffered sufficient evidence that it is safe and effective to treat a particular indication. Until then, US law does not allow the drug to be approved for sale in interstate commerce. (And until that happens, I tend not to read about it.) The sad part is that I know of at least a half dozen drugs that are safe and effective for treating a disease or condition but no sponsor will come forward and submit it for approval. Usually it is because the drug would be unprofitable, occasionally political, and even more rarely ethical, but there it is. Meanwhile, patients suffer. Blame Congress. Blame the FD&C Act that Congress passed. Blame anyone you want. But if you want the drug approved for an indication, become a sponsor and get an NDA. That, sir, is the gridlock with respect to marijuana. No one will come forward and apply for the approval.

The conspiracy theory about big, bad Pharma losing too much money goes only so far with me, since I've run and directed cases that took billions and billions of dollars from them. Billions. They aren't nearly as tough as you think they are.

So to conclude, I respect your research. I respect your position. Now get off your ass and sponsor the damn article to get it approved as a drug. But in doing so, you have to follow the rules that apply to all drugs. And I repeat, the fact that it is currently Schedule I is not a bar to clinical trials.

In the alternative, get with your national level elected officials and sponsor legislation that takes marijuana off the controlled substances schedule and get it into interstate commerce as a legalized intoxicant of the same caliber as alcohol at the state level (which, frankly, is how I would pursue legalization). I have no idea how alcohol is regulated, but quit calling it a drug and you won't have to pass all the hurdles we've talked about for far too many pages.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2016, 09:16 PM
 
2,612 posts, read 1,117,551 times
Reputation: 3449
Quote:
Originally Posted by notmeofficer View Post
Granny twelve plant is a term I'll get you a link if you want to read the specifics...
Please do.

I've honestly never heard of it before. Did a quick search and didn't find anything.

I'm interested where it originated and what it means.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2016, 09:44 PM
 
3,144 posts, read 888,188 times
Reputation: 2472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rescue3 View Post
I appreciate that you have studied this plant forever. Great! Sponsor it!

That it is currently Schedule I is not an absolute bar to testing it. Whoever told you that is mistaken. I've seen the trial results of studies done here in the US using marijuana on humans. No one went to jail. (The studies, however, weren't particulary successful.) Heck, you can do a Medline search and find a dozen such studies yourself.

I have no earthly idea whether or not marijuana is safe and effective in treating... anything. I rather suspect it is, but I haven't seen the studies that show it. Until the drug is approved, matters relating to it tended not to cross my desk.

FDA accepts offshore studies every single day of the week. As long as they are (a) performed to FDA standards, and (b) submitted to the agency, there isn't an issue. I can name a bunch of drugs approved based primarily on overseas trials and usage - and a few that weren't (Thalymide cames to mind...). The problem is that they are rarely submitted to the FDA. If a sponsor does not submit them to the Agency, FDA can't evaluate them.
It is just hard to fathom that you are so deluded that you believe a Schedule I substance can be submitted for approval to the FDA.

The fact that the FDA accepts offshore studies is irrelevant. They have NEVER accepted an offshore study for a Schedule I banned substance!

Even if there is no law that explicitly prohibits submitting a banned substance, no company in their right mind would research such a substance, knowing that all it would take is for the political winds to change, potentially causing the loss of all the money put into the research. Heck, just walking into the FDA's office with a sample is against federal law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rescue3 View Post
I'm not locked into any belief. This thread, however, is about why it isn't approved in the US.
Actually, that is not correct. it is about if it should be legalized in the US. If legalized it would obtain herb status, not drug status (albeit controlled herb status). Only then can someone come forward with a specific formulation and submit it for approval as a drug. See the difference? It has to be legalized first. Then, even if the FDA rejects the applicant, it would still be a legal, regulated herb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rescue3 View Post
The conspiracy theory about big, bad Pharma losing too much money goes only so far with me, since I've run and directed cases that took billions and billions of dollars from them. Billions. They aren't nearly as tough as you think they are.
They don't have to be tough. All they need is deep pockets and blank checks. You just confirmed they do.

Interesting article, with impeccable timing:

Big Pharma prescriptions including painkillers, antidepressants plummeting as seniors turn to medical cannabis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rescue3 View Post
but quit calling it a drug and you won't have to pass all the hurdles we've talked about for far too many pages.
Now we are getting somewhere. That is what I have been trying to do all along...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2016, 09:57 PM
 
Location: zooland 1
3,744 posts, read 3,420,688 times
Reputation: 5516
Quote:
Originally Posted by jburress View Post
Please do.

I've honestly never heard of it before. Did a quick search and didn't find anything.

I'm interested where it originated and what it means.
Demonstrative example... Some counties are stricter..some are more lenient... This applies to many cities as well

Chapter 6.90 MARIJUANA CULTIVATION


https://www.google.com/url?q=http://...UsP2Ox2Vzg6NkQ


And normals skewed view

http://www.canorml.org/medical-marij...-in-california
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top