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Old 07-31-2016, 06:50 AM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vacoder View Post
The misconception is ancient times vs modern times. It was well accepted that even in the 1600's that slavery was a vile industry. This was in despite of historical slavery. Many Patriots were against slavery at the time of the revolution but in the name of unity they compromised. It was an easy compromise for sure.


It is not a guilt trip to acknowledge you ancestors faults.
If you were alive and living in that day, it would not have been thought of as a fault, but a way of life.
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Old 07-31-2016, 06:59 AM
 
11,679 posts, read 7,050,301 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
If you were alive and living in that day, it would not have been thought of as a fault, but a way of life.
Hmm, sounds like outsourcing jobs over seas. Many companies would probably rather hire Americans, but for many it's not realistic in today's economy...so they basically pay foreign workers slave wages.
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Old 07-31-2016, 07:24 AM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
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Default 'Let my people go' ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion1999 View Post
Slavery was a world institution (still is in some parts)

Why does the U.S. still has the guilt trip? Many monuments in China, Japan, Russia and Europe and Africa and the Americas were built by slaves. I don't see any of them with the slavery guilt shi@t we have here.

the Greeks and Romans practiced slavery and all their monuments were done by slaves, so was the Great Wall Of China. Egypt monuments were built by slaves. So did Japan.

the political correct crowd of this country should get over it.


even the Monuments from the Aztecs, Incas and the Mayans in the Americas were built by slaves from weaker tribes they conquered.....you thought they had free will work and employee's rights and benefits and were allow to unionized?
Quote:
Why does the U.S. still has the guilt trip?
Why do some people who currently reside in the U.S. wish to lay a guilt trip on the Americans living in present day, for something that happened over 100 years ago?

Many people were given the opportunity to leave and return to their country of origin. Many decided to stay and make this country their home. They made a life and moved forward. In doing so, some families prospered quite well.

Yet today, some continue to hammer away at the past. Seems to me that in doing so, they stagnate the growth of modern day solutions to problems that are relevant in our time. Thus, the problems of today, are placed in the shadows of yesterday and family's prosperity are hindered, even though a well laid foundation was made for them by their own family heritage 50 - 100 years ago.
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Old 07-31-2016, 07:28 AM
 
21,535 posts, read 11,611,519 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3~Shepherds View Post
Why would we apologize for something the other party did......if people including Dems and their families were not involved, what are we apologizing for?



To make you feel better?
We just want them to get over it already. Other people have gotten over far worse much more quickly. How can you respect people who fight to maintain their victim status and demand sympathy and support? How can they look in the mirror? Pathetic is a word that comes to mind for someone to hide behind events that ended 150 years ago.
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Old 07-31-2016, 07:38 AM
 
Location: *
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry View Post
The quote that you cite has nothing to do with what I posted on.

Lee was about retaining the Souths freedoms as a "nation" but he cared little about the freedoms of the individual.
I'll be happy to clear up the confusion. I was commenting on the fact that you neglected to provide the reference to a copyrighted work.

That article used quotes from the following letter in bold below:

Quote:
...In this enlightened age, there are few I believe, but what will acknowledge, that slavery as an institution, is a moral & political evil in any Country. It is useless to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it however a greater evil to the white man than to the black race, & while my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more strong for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, socially & physically. The painful discipline they are undergoing, is necessary for their instruction as a race, & I hope will prepare & lead them to better things. How long their subjugation may be necessary is known & ordered by a wise Merciful Providence. Their emancipation will sooner result from the mild & melting influence of Christianity, than the storms & tempests of fiery Controversy. This influence though slow, is sure. ...
Entire letter here:

Letter to his wife on slavery (1856). By Robert E. Lee // Fair Use Repository

Mr. Lee seemed to be very much interested in the individual's right to own people as property. He was pretty explicit in expressing that it was for the 'good' of the Black folks enslaved to this notion. Also made clear where his greatest sympathies were enlisted.
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Old 07-31-2016, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
Hmm, sounds like outsourcing jobs over seas. Many companies would probably rather hire Americans, but for many it's not realistic in today's economy...so they basically pay foreign workers slave wages.
oh, hi eddie ...

yes, you're right in putting it like that. Slave wage workers go to work every day and they don't think twice about it.

Quite interesting as it seems, people don't know (whatever it is) it is wrong until some one comes along with a compelling argument that it is wrong and the majority of the masses agree.

I've read many an article on some social construct that is relevant to another culture in that they will state, people living in other countries don't understand, this is our way of life and it is not wrong for us. (whatever it is)

Social evolution is not something that happens over night to a society. Thousands of years go by, before the effects of it are seen and understood.

We are the oldest society, still in existence and I am amazed we have lasted this long.

Last edited by Ellis Bell; 07-31-2016 at 07:51 AM..
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Old 07-31-2016, 07:56 AM
 
Location: *
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
None of those places were founded on America's ideals.

Now if you wanna say that there's no such thing as American Exceptionalism, then i'm cool with your opinion. But If America is special, everything you posted is bunk.
The ideals were compromised.

The progress made thus far has been to reconcile the words to the deeds.

Personally, I like how Senator Carl Schurz, the German revolutionary, & Union Army General in the American Civil War, put it:

Quote:
The Senator from Wisconsin cannot frighten me by exclaiming, "My country, right or wrong." In one sense I say so too. My country; and my country is the great American Republic. My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.

Remarks in the Senate (29 February 1872) He was here responding to the famous slogan derived from a statement of Stephen Decatur: "Our country! In her intercourse with foreign nations, may she always be in the right; but our country, right or wrong."
(Also like what Mark Twain said re: "My country, right or wrong. ...")
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Old 07-31-2016, 08:06 AM
 
Location: 2 blocks from bay in L.I, NY
1,767 posts, read 1,439,099 times
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Default That covers a lot of things

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
If you were alive and living in that day, it would not have been thought of as a fault, but a way of life.
If you were living in that day, a way of life included 13 year old girls, not allowed to bear fully educated or become independent, married off to a 40 year old men to bear him 8 or more children, and beaten by your drunk husband when he came home after a night out.

If you were living in that day, little children were forced to work wherever they were placed whether in the field, mill or tilling the land for 10-12 hr days.

If you were living in that day, if you a disease or plague, it was thought you could be cured by blood-letting or avoid catching the plague by wearing a vial of perfune to cover the stench of not bathing for days and even weeks at a time.

These things among others not mentioned were all thought of as a way of life, not a fault in that day. Yet, our society today doesn't try to justify those past abhorrent practices or dismiss them as trite but openly denounce it. When you know better you do better. Even when they weren't recognised as a fault, those were faults then and they're faults now. Slavery is the same. It was a horrorible fault in 1600's, and in the 1800's, and even today wherever it exists. No amount of trying to justify it will work regardless of how many cultures practiced it or when they did so. Wrong is wrong, period. So stop digging a deeper and deeper hole for yourself by trying to deflect the fact that it was a horrible wrong committed against a group of people.
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Old 07-31-2016, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Hyde Park, Los Angeles
1,544 posts, read 662,941 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PullMyFinger View Post
We just want them to get over it already. Other people have gotten over far worse much more quickly. How can you respect people who fight to maintain their victim status and demand sympathy and support? How can they look in the mirror? Pathetic is a word that comes to mind for someone to hide behind events that ended 150 years ago.
That's no excuse to downplay the atrocities that happened. Some of the things that occurred during slavery (racism, discrimination, etc.) are still going on today. Telling Black people to "get over it" is equivalent to giving them and their history in this country two large middle fingers. Now that's pathetic.

Maybe if the 1% lost their wealth that was earned through slave labor, then we'll "get over it." Besides, bigotry and insensitivity don't taste very well on the tongue, does it?
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Old 07-31-2016, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
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Default hind sight 20/20 ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klassyhk View Post
If you were living in that day, a way of life included 13 year old girls, not allowed to bear fully educated or become independent, married off to a 40 year old men to bear him 8 or more children, and beaten by your drunk husband when he came home after a night out.

If you were living in that day, little children were forced to work wherever they were placed whether in the field, mill or tilling the land for 10-12 hr days.

If you were living in that day, if you a disease or plague, it was thought you could be cured by blood-letting or avoid catching the plague by wearing a vial of perfune to cover the stench of not bathing for days and even weeks at a time.

These things among others not mentioned were all thought of as a way of life, not a fault in that day. Yet, our society today doesn't try to justify those past abhorrent practices or dismiss them as trite but openly denounce it. When you know better you do better. Even when they weren't recognised as a fault, those were faults then and they're faults now. Slavery is the same. It was a horrorible fault in 1600's, and in the 1800's, and even today wherever it exists. No amount of trying to justify it will work regardless of how many cultures practiced it or when they did so. Wrong is wrong, period. So stop digging a deeper and deeper hole for yourself by trying to deflect the fact that it was a horrible wrong committed against a group of people.
That is said, now, but would that have been said then? And if so, to whom would it have been told? I do know the answer to the last question, just so you know.

In the late 1800's my grandmother, born to a family of 12 children, married at the age of 18 and was considered to be an old maid, for having had waited that long in life to marry. Her sisters married before her, and had begun their family, at their age 12 - 16.

Today it is against the law to marry without parental consent, before the age of 18. Then not only was it an accepted way of life, but it was considered inconceivable that woman had not married and started a family before she reached the age of 18.

My grandmother told me when I married there was no reason good enough to divorce. Now it is a personal choice, then it was not, as divorce was unheard of ... reasons to divorce would never enter into the equation of family life.

What people do today they have a choice. No one is making them do anything they don't want to do, except die and pay taxes.

Today it is a choice to cast fault on a society that when in its day would not have seen it as a fault, but as an accepted practice of that day.

The hole that is being dug is the one that people are hell bent on fixing a past or a perception of a past, that is no longer relevant to the choices they have today. It's your shovel.

Last edited by Ellis Bell; 07-31-2016 at 09:15 AM.. Reason: stupid typpos
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