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Old 08-05-2016, 01:28 PM
 
Location: SC
8,791 posts, read 5,651,894 times
Reputation: 12805

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostrider275452 View Post
My understanding is, the slaves were compensated for there work, not sure how. If they were, then it wasn't slave labor.
Tell you what...

"I'll be around tomorrow at about noon to pick up you, your wife, and kids. Make plans for a long day because I am going to work you all to the bone. Then, if you don't get finished by the end of the day, you can count on staying until the job is done. Oh, btw, finished or not, I am also sure you won't mind if I keep your wife and daughters overnight -- I may get lonely.

Anyway, You will be happy to know that I plan to pay you .20 cents for the entire stay. Please say you'll gladly accept; as I wouldn't want to have to go through the trouble of getting the sheriff to come get you and drag your azz to work. Looking forward! Ta!"


Since getting compensated is all that matters to you, you wouldn't mind if someone said this to you?

Last edited by blktoptrvl; 08-05-2016 at 01:59 PM..
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Old 08-05-2016, 01:32 PM
 
3,453 posts, read 3,117,044 times
Reputation: 1653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nlambert View Post
And here is the same tired argument that always gets brought up.


It IS the same. The idea behind the flag was a representation of what many of our ancestors fought and died for. They fought for a whole lot more than slavery (and many didn't fight for slavery period) but you as others have drank the Kool-Aid without understanding all of history. A lot of our ancestors died without fighting in the war in areas where Union soldiers came in and pretty much killed everyone because they were Southerners.


That flag is not a symbol of hate to all who fly it.


The second common thing to do is to try to tie that flag to someone who committed a hate crime as a means to justify your point. But it doesn't work. I seem to recall numerous threads on here where folks say not to judge BLM by the actions of a few outliers. I would say the same thing applies in this instance too. Every race has its nutjobs.


The Black Panther party widely used the red, black, and green (African-American flag) flag as their flag. I think we can both agree that the Black Panther party had some very violent and racist counterparts within its ranks. Does that mean that ALL who fly an African-American flag are violent or racist? Absolutely not.

That flag that the black panthers used isn't hanging on state capitals grounds. Confederate flag Is apart of many black peoples ancestory also and those people don't want that flag flying on state grounds either.

It's a god awful comparison the black party was formed as a self defense organization against the hatefulness of whites.

So bye...

Last edited by Staysean23; 08-05-2016 at 01:43 PM..
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Old 08-05-2016, 02:07 PM
 
3,453 posts, read 3,117,044 times
Reputation: 1653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nlambert View Post
Pot meet kettle.......




And ditto. No one gets to say what they want without repercussions. That is the beauty of the freedom of speech. You just don't like it when someone gets tired of hearing it and challenges it with fact instead of emotion and personal opinion.

Sweetheart what you failed to realize is no one disputed facts and that fact was that blacks owned slaves. What is a fact is that blacks didn't benefit from slavery in the US. Many of these big white corporations out today did. Slavery led to many other things that dismantled the black community its the very thing that led to jim crow where whites continued to do evil things.

Nothing I have said was with emotion and personal opinion.
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Old 08-05-2016, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Huntsville
5,427 posts, read 4,076,135 times
Reputation: 6192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Staysean23 View Post
That flag that the black panthers used isn't hanging on state capitals grounds. Confederate flag Is apart of many black peoples ancestory also and those people don't want that flag flying on state grounds either.

It's a god awful comparison the black party was formed as a self defense organization against the hatefulness of whites.

So bye...


There's that emotion creeping in. Until you can set it aside you'll never listen to anything that anyone has to say that doesn't align with your emotion.


The Confederate Flag was flown on many a battleship in the military for many years (and I believe is still a part of some flags they fly).




Look at how you spun what I said? You never mentioned that the Black Panthers were violent or racist. You spun it as an organization solely created for protection. That's not what they did or do. Sorry..... but you know there's truth to that just as the KKK is a violent idiotic group too. I wouldn't dare say that organization was created to protect anyone. It wasn't. Neither organization was. They were created to push an agenda.


I made the same comparison that you did, and you decided that in your mind it is not the same.


The Confederate flag was/is flown by:


The Confederate States/Confederate Army
Certain states that have it as a part of their state flag
Certain sections of the U.S. Military
People proud of their heritage
Racists who use it to push their agenda


The African American Flag was/is flown by:


African Americans who are proud of their heritage
Racists who use it to push their agenda




Where in ANY of the above comparisons is there an untrue statement? The African American Flag has never been a part of a state flag, military flag, or part of a war. If it had been, it would likely be flying today.


You have an agenda and are using a piece of cloth to try to push it. You are also picking and choosing which parts of history to acknowledge for the same purpose. It just doesn't work. Either take it all, or take none. You do not get to choose which.
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Old 08-05-2016, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Huntsville
5,427 posts, read 4,076,135 times
Reputation: 6192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Staysean23 View Post
Sweetheart what you failed to realize is no one disputed facts and that fact was that blacks owned slaves. What is a fact is that blacks didn't benefit from slavery in the US. Many of these big white corporations out today did. Slavery led to many other things that dismantled the black community its the very thing that led to jim crow where whites continued to do evil things.

Nothing I have said was with emotion and personal opinion.


"Sweetheart".....


What you failed to realize is that most whites didn't benefit from slavery either. Poor whites got no benefit from slavery and still don't recognize this imaginary benefit. You made that assumption on your own. You cannot say that all whites are evil, just as I cannot say all blacks are evil. Neither would be a true statement.


There were blacks who benefitted in the US from slavery. Look up Nat Butler, Anthony Johnson, or Nicolas Metoyer for example. Butler owned and sold slaves to Southern states to better his economic condition. Metoyer's family owned a total of 215 slaves. This is where you need to understand history. It was not as cut and dry as you think.


"Joel A. Rogers noted this phenomenon in his 100 Amazing Facts: “The Negro slave-holders, like the white ones, fought to keep their chattels in the Civil War.” Rogers also notes that some black men, including those in New Orleans at the outbreak of the War, “fought to perpetuate slavery.”


http://www.theroot.com/articles/hist..._they_exist/2/

"Most of us will find the news that some black people bought and sold other black people for profit quite distressing, as well we should. But given the long history of class divisions in the black community, which Martin R. Delany as early as the 1850s described as “a nation within a nation,” and given the role of African elites in the long history of the Trans-Atlantic slave trade, perhaps we should not be surprised that we can find examples throughout black history of just about every sort of human behavior, from the most noble to the most heinous, that we find in any other people’s history."

The point of this is that never once has a white person denied slavery existed. It was a very real part of our history. But it was not the only part. THAT is where we get hung up. You cannot cherry pick which parts of history you want to remember. History is supposed to be an accurate account of what happened in the past. You can use history as a lesson on where we need to grow as a nation, but you have to take the good with the bad. You cannot dwell on just the bad. A lot of progress has been made since slavery. But you are choosing to only remember slavery. It's not accurate if you willingly omit certain aspects that do not fit your agenda.

Last edited by Nlambert; 08-05-2016 at 02:46 PM..
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Old 08-05-2016, 02:39 PM
 
5,227 posts, read 2,313,533 times
Reputation: 3667
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter View Post
Slaves were treated very well in America. It's well known that slaveowners loved their slaves as if they were their own blood family. They would've never mistreated them.

Sure slaves wanted to be free, but white people knew what was better for black people than black people themselves. Blacks just didn't know how good they had it. Sure, they could beat you and sell away your family (something they did very often), but what's the big deal? Blacks got used to it anyway. Besides, the Bible told them that they were supposed to obey their master's orders.

And who are blacks to go against God, right? I think this is something that we can all agree with.
This is one crazy insidious post...!!! Maybe the writer may care to be enslaved and then come back and read what they wrote.
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Old 08-05-2016, 02:43 PM
 
3,453 posts, read 3,117,044 times
Reputation: 1653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nlambert View Post
There's that emotion creeping in. Until you can set it aside you'll never listen to anything that anyone has to say that doesn't align with your emotion.


The Confederate Flag was flown on many a battleship in the military for many years (and I believe is still a part of some flags they fly).




Look at how you spun what I said? You never mentioned that the Black Panthers were violent or racist. You spun it as an organization solely created for protection. That's not what they did or do. Sorry..... but you know there's truth to that just as the KKK is a violent idiotic group too. I wouldn't dare say that organization was created to protect anyone. It wasn't. Neither organization was. They were created to push an agenda.


I made the same comparison that you did, and you decided that in your mind it is not the same.


The Confederate flag was/is flown by:


The Confederate States/Confederate Army
Certain states that have it as a part of their state flag
Certain sections of the U.S. Military
People proud of their heritage
Racists who use it to push their agenda


The African American Flag was/is flown by:


African Americans who are proud of their heritage
Racists who use it to push their agenda




Where in ANY of the above comparisons is there an untrue statement? The African American Flag has never been a part of a state flag, military flag, or part of a war. If it had been, it would likely be flying today.


You have an agenda and are using a piece of cloth to try to push it. You are also picking and choosing which parts of history to acknowledge for the same purpose. It just doesn't work. Either take it all, or take none. You do not get to choose which.

No agenda boo boo and there's that defensive attitude creeping in when someones points out the historical evilness of whites Your comparison are like apples and oranges. That flag was represented on state grounds by KKK members who were also elected officials in high power positions. You know the people who were responsible for a lot of these outrageous laws that happen. Those people upset that they couldn't keep us enslaved so they found other ways to get us. The same flag that continues to be used by white supremacy groups that infiltrate our police departments till this current day. You can go south and still see people flying that flag on there yards. You can also still find the KKK and other white supremacy groups celebrating there white power. So miss me with this whole heritage crap.

It doesn't belong on any government grounds. Put it in a museum.

When systemic racism and discrimination stops and all americans are treated equally under the constitution then we will stop talking about slavery.

The new black party was different from the actual black panther party. Members of the black panther party went after the new black panther party making them change there name because they did not want to be associated with that small group of people. The KKK had 1.5 million members who carried that flag and killed off many blacks.

This comparisons is apples and oranges. I see where your trying to go but your riding down the wrong highway. The only agenda I have is to continue to support the many organizations that are fighting systemic racism and making sure us black folks are treated fairly in this country.

Last edited by Staysean23; 08-05-2016 at 03:00 PM..
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Old 08-05-2016, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Huntsville
5,427 posts, read 4,076,135 times
Reputation: 6192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Staysean23 View Post
No agenda boo boo and there's that defensive attitude creeping in when someones points out the historical evilness of whites Your comparison are like apples and oranges. That flag was represented on state grounds by KKK members who were also elected officials in high power positions. You know the people who were responsible for a lot of these outrageous laws that happen. Those people upset that they couldn't keep us enslaved so they found other ways to get us. The same flag that continues to be used by white supremacy groups that infiltrate our police departments till this current day. You can go south and still see people flying that flag on there yards. You can also still find the KKK and other white supremacy groups celebrating there white power. So miss me with this whole heritage crap.

It doesn't belong on any government grounds. Put it in a museum.

When systemic racism and discrimination stops and all americans are treated equally under the constitution then we will stop talking about slavery.
It's not a defensive attitude (although I see that you've now resorted to name calling... guessing I struck a nerve?). It's disgust at folks who choose not to see the bigger picture and to push an agenda. Let it go already. This is 2016, not the 1800's. You don't get to decide what belongs on government grounds. That is for the general public to vote on. If they vote it out, then it's out. That's the way the system works.


1.) YOU have never been enslaved. Period. So you cannot use "us" in your sentences.
2.) The comparisons are valid. Anyone with common sense knows this.
3.) I live in the South, and the few people that I know who actually still fly this flag (the number is much lower than you "think" it is) do not fly it for racial reasons.
4.) You can also find evidence of the Black Panther Party at work today. What's your point?






On the heritage thing..... absolutely not. If you get to claim your heritage, EVERYONE else gets to claim theirs. If it offends you, I'm sorry. You want people to be ashamed of where they came from because it offends you. No dice. Whether either of us agree with their decision to celebrate their heritage, they have every right to do so freely. If you want that taken away you need to remember that the same freedom must be taken from everyone.


Just because someone doesn't agree with another person's actions doesn't mean those people are forced to give up their freedom so as to give you more. All are equal. Sorry.
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Old 08-05-2016, 03:09 PM
 
3,453 posts, read 3,117,044 times
Reputation: 1653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nlambert View Post
"Sweetheart".....


What you failed to realize is that most whites didn't benefit from slavery either. Poor whites got no benefit from slavery and still don't recognize this imaginary benefit. You made that assumption on your own. You cannot say that all whites are evil, just as I cannot say all blacks are evil. Neither would be a true statement.


There were blacks who benefitted in the US from slavery. Look up Nat Butler, Anthony Johnson, or Nicolas Metoyer for example. Butler owned and sold slaves to Southern states to better his economic condition. Metoyer's family owned a total of 215 slaves. This is where you need to understand history. It was not as cut and dry as you think.


"Joel A. Rogers noted this phenomenon in his 100 Amazing Facts: “The Negro slave-holders, like the white ones, fought to keep their chattels in the Civil War.” Rogers also notes that some black men, including those in New Orleans at the outbreak of the War, “fought to perpetuate slavery.”


Did Black People Own Slaves?

"Most of us will find the news that some black people bought and sold other black people for profit quite distressing, as well we should. But given the long history of class divisions in the black community, which Martin R. Delany as early as the 1850s described as “a nation within a nation,” and given the role of African elites in the long history of the Trans-Atlantic slave trade, perhaps we should not be surprised that we can find examples throughout black history of just about every sort of human behavior, from the most noble to the most heinous, that we find in any other people’s history."

The point of this is that never once has a white person denied slavery existed. It was a very real part of our history. But it was not the only part. THAT is where we get hung up. You cannot cherry pick which parts of history you want to remember. History is supposed to be an accurate account of what happened in the past. You can use history as a lesson on where we need to grow as a nation, but you have to take the good with the bad. You cannot dwell on just the bad. A lot of progress has been made since slavery. But you are choosing to only remember slavery. It's not accurate if you willingly omit certain aspects that do not fit your agenda.

Those points have already been pointed out many many post back and no one denied that but I said white corporations benefited from slavery. Im choosing to use slavery jim crow etc because it's the root of things that continue to happen today. Until systemic racism discrimination ends it will always be brought up.
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Old 08-05-2016, 03:19 PM
 
3,453 posts, read 3,117,044 times
Reputation: 1653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nlambert View Post
It's not a defensive attitude (although I see that you've now resorted to name calling... guessing I struck a nerve?). It's disgust at folks who choose not to see the bigger picture and to push an agenda. Let it go already. This is 2016, not the 1800's. You don't get to decide what belongs on government grounds. That is for the general public to vote on. If they vote it out, then it's out. That's the way the system works.


1.) YOU have never been enslaved. Period. So you cannot use "us" in your sentences.
2.) The comparisons are valid. Anyone with common sense knows this.
3.) I live in the South, and the few people that I know who actually still fly this flag (the number is much lower than you "think" it is) do not fly it for racial reasons.
4.) You can also find evidence of the Black Panther Party at work today. What's your point?






On the heritage thing..... absolutely not. If you get to claim your heritage, EVERYONE else gets to claim theirs. If it offends you, I'm sorry. You want people to be ashamed of where they came from because it offends you. No dice. Whether either of us agree with their decision to celebrate their heritage, they have every right to do so freely. If you want that taken away you need to remember that the same freedom must be taken from everyone.


Just because someone doesn't agree with another person's actions doesn't mean those people are forced to give up their freedom so as to give you more. All are equal. Sorry.

I don't have to be enslaved to talk about it. Just because I wasn't doesn't mean we should stop talking about it. The comparison are not valid and you agree there right to celebrate there heritage hasn't been taken away. I grew up partially in the south. Go out to Kennesaw GA you will see many flags. Black panther party has no political influence. However these supremacy groups to that reside in Congress and our police departments do

Elements of the past are showing up in present day America. If us speaking on our heritage on how whites have treated blacks in america offends you then that's on you. No one took there freedoms away go anywhere in the south you still see those flags the KKK is still able to hold rallies White supremacy groups are still celebrating there whitness.

The word Equality is almost laughable in the USA..
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