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Old 08-09-2016, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,774 posts, read 4,449,045 times
Reputation: 1407

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
You have grossly underestimated & undervalued Mr. Douglass' influence & wisdom.

The 'devil is in the details' indeed.

Mr. Douglass had his eye on the endgame. President Lincoln probably did too.

There are some, in the present day, who would refer to both men as 'tyrants'. (& then quibble amongst themselves over whether it's a little 't' or a big 'T')
Quote:
Mr. Douglass had his eye on the endgame. President Lincoln probably did too.
If the endgame was for a more powerful union, then they both had common ground on which to stand.

I placed no value on either person, just pointed to the commonality they may have shared.
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Old 08-09-2016, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Hyde Park, Los Angeles
1,544 posts, read 664,106 times
Reputation: 1321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer0101 View Post
Are there really people in America that don't realize slavery ended over a 100 years ago and that people today had absolutely nothing to do with it?
Chattel slavery ended over 150 years ago. Systematic racism still hasn't ended.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
Take the shackles off so we can talk. Oh wait, you can't ....

The Federal Government never took off those shackles and have placed shackles on all Americans of any color.

So until you can accept the fact that we are all living in the same boat together, your opinions will hereby be moot.
We've never lived in the same boat. Don't try to butter me up with that bull turd. You've pretty much rendered your argument moot.

Until you've walked many a mile in a Black person's shoes or experienced the same struggles with blatant and covert racism, then what you have to say is null and void.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
When people bring their affairs out into the public arena, they can not have their cake and eat it too.
Maybe if folks like you would stop "stealing the cake," Black people wouldn't need to bring these issues to the forefront. Face it, whites have been getting over on the labor of Black people for centuries, and we finally have the courage to speak on it. Don't attempt to silence me or any of my people. There will be dire consequences on your part if you do.

Just so you know, I'm not making a threat. It's simply the law of the universe, otherwise known as Karma...something your ancestors and descendants will suffer from if you keep this up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
You can do the blame game all you want, but that won't get you where you want to be.
You fell for the bait like I figured. Nobody's blaming anybody. I'm just living my life and following my path in this world. At the same time, I want people like you to get the hell out of my way because of your bad vibes and energy. Your spirit isn't right.
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Old 08-09-2016, 06:49 PM
 
4,986 posts, read 2,670,249 times
Reputation: 2738
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I think the reason many would try to downplay the horrors of slavery is not really out of ignorance. In my opinion, some people wish they could bring slavery back. I believe some people feel that Blacks being enslaved would make them feel safer, basically to "keep Blacks in their place".
Black mentality. The sooner whites get their heads out the sand and ignoring it the better.
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Old 08-09-2016, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,774 posts, read 4,449,045 times
Reputation: 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeasonedNewbie View Post
Chattel slavery ended over 150 years ago. Systematic racism still hasn't ended.



We've never lived in the same boat. Don't try to butter me up with that bull turd. You've pretty much rendered your argument moot.

Until you've walked many a mile in a Black person's shoes or experienced the same struggles with blatant and covert racism, then what you have to say is null and void.



Maybe if folks like you would stop "stealing the cake," Black people wouldn't need to bring these issues to the forefront. Face it, whites have been getting over on the labor of Black people for centuries, and we finally have the courage to speak on it. Don't attempt to silence me or any of my people. There will be dire consequences on your part if you do.

Just so you know, I'm not making a threat. It's simply the law of the universe, otherwise known as Karma...something your ancestors and descendants will suffer from if you keep this up.



You fell for the bait like I figured. Nobody's blaming anybody. I'm just living my life and following my path in this world. At the same time, I want people like you to get the hell out of my way because of your bad vibes and energy. Your spirit isn't right.
Someone's spirit may not be right, but I don't think it is mine. I do believe in Karma. Take a look around, and you may find that Karma is alive and well.

I do understand where you come from. Though I have not experienced the race issue as a black person, I have experienced it as a white person, being told to stop stealing the cake. What f cake?

If you live in America under the same American government I do, that makes you an American living in the same boat as the rest of Americans. Not a butter up cupcake ... just a fact that your shortsightedness will lead to your rights as well as mine being taken away and if you do not understand what I am talking about that makes you a danger to the liberties of all Americans.

As it has been said, "know for whom the bells tolls; it tolls for thee."
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Old 08-09-2016, 07:30 PM
 
Location: SC
8,793 posts, read 5,672,057 times
Reputation: 12805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer0101 View Post
Are there really people in America that don't realize slavery ended over a 100 years ago and that people today had absolutely nothing to do with it?
That's fine, but if you are going to make a response to my post, how about responding to what I wrote and not going off on an unrelated tangent? I said nothing about people of today as to whether or not they had anything to do with the act of slavery. I asked if they understood the concept of slavery.
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Old 08-09-2016, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,774 posts, read 4,449,045 times
Reputation: 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by blktoptrvl View Post
That's fine, but if you are going to make a response to my post, how about responding to what I wrote and not going off on an unrelated tangent? I said nothing about people of today as to whether or not they had anything to do with the act of slavery. I asked if they understood the concept of slavery.
Due to the fact that money is missing from my (hard work) pay check to pay for the (government) salaries of people and put food on the table of families I do not know, I'd say nope, people haven't a clue.
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Old 08-10-2016, 05:26 AM
 
Location: *
8,117 posts, read 2,426,131 times
Reputation: 2223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
If the endgame was for a more powerful union, then they both had common ground on which to stand.

I placed no value on either person, just pointed to the commonality they may have shared.
The endgame for Mr. Douglass was to end the right to own people as property & to enfranchise those enslaved. President Lincoln never had a chance to see it come to fruition. War is hell & assasination shortened his life.

You needn't explain you place no value on either man's life, it's very obvious.
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Old 08-10-2016, 06:35 AM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,774 posts, read 4,449,045 times
Reputation: 1407
Default I get it, more than you know ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
If the endgame was for a more powerful union, then they both had common ground on which to stand.

I placed no value on either person, just pointed to the commonality they may have shared.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
The endgame for Mr. Douglass was to end the right to own people as property & to enfranchise those enslaved. President Lincoln never had a chance to see it come to fruition. War is hell & assasination shortened his life.

You needn't explain you place no value on either man's life, it's very obvious.
That's not what I meant, and you know it. However, I wasn't explicit in my comment, so touché.

So let me be clear ...

"On Aug. 1, 1863, Frederick Douglass wrote a letter in his newspaper announcing his refusal to continue recruiting black troops for the Union Army. “When I plead for recruits, I want to do it with all my heart,” he wrote in Douglass’ Monthly. “I cannot do that now,” he said, because “colored men have much overrated the enlightenment, justice and generosity of our rulers in Washington.” Among other things, he said, black soldiers were not being paid as much as whites and were being sent on menial or dangerous missions without adequate support. Even worse, Confederate forces that captured black soldiers often either executed them or sold them into slavery."

That paragraph quote, does not tell me that Mr. Douglas is not a Union man, it tells me he is all for the Union. (the black man and the white man have a common ground, what is that common ground really?)

Since you have brought up the value of people, what is the value of the Black Confederate Soldier in what he has to say?

Slave Narrative (1936-1938)
Federal Writers' Project

Richard Mack, Slave Narratives: Volume 14, Part 3, Pages 151-153

"I loved dem days, I loved dem people. We lived better..." "I had thousands of dollars in Confederate money when the War broke up. If we had won I would be rich."
"The time Capt. Wade Hampton was stumping I followed him all over the State; I led 500 head ... led 500 negroes through the county; I was Captain of them; I rode 'Nellie Ponsa' and wore my red jacket and cap and boots; I had a sword too..." The Era of Black Confederates

btw: this is about slavery, that part is right. It is about how to enslave all the citizens in the U.S., not just the black man.
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Old 08-10-2016, 07:07 AM
 
Location: Huntsville
5,436 posts, read 4,094,509 times
Reputation: 6192
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
I think everything you've said is fair.

I don't defend violence. I struggle to understand where the violence comes from. That doesn't excuse the violence. But I also don't attach the violence to the protests. I see them as separate things. Which is why your remark that every avenue should be explored before moving to protest doesn't make sense to me. Every avenue is protest. If I see injustice, and I speak out about it, that is me protesting injustice.

If I see injustice, and I write my congressman, that's me protesting injustice.

If I see injustice, and I contact the media and get the press involved, that's me protesting injustice.

If I see injustice, and I organize a candlelight vigil, that's me protesting injustice.

If I march in the streets, that's me protesting injustice.

Every avenue is protest. And my protest is not associated with people throwing bricks at police cars. That's someone else's protest. My protest is not invalidated by their protest. But when you take the position that it is invalidated, and you're part of the power structure that I'm protesting against, then you've validated my perspective that I'm not your equal. You've imposed a framework, that not only must I stage my protests in ways that you find acceptable, but that I must accept that anyone who joins my protest but acts in an unacceptable fashion then invalidates my protest. That's an imposition of power against someone without power. I can't be responsible for every other protester. I can only be responsible for the validity of my complaints.


Reading back through my post, I realize that I was very unclear on what I meant by protest. I'll clarify this here.


I am referring to a public protest with large groups of people. I think the other protests you mentioned above are absolutely necessary to ensure the government is aware that we as citizens may not approve of specific situations in which we protest against.


Protests such as BLM where large groups of people gather can become dangerous very quickly. These large protests cannot monitor nor regulate dangerous people committing acts of violence by people who want to use that platform to commit violence with the hopes of getting lost in the crowd. If the peaceful protestors amongst the crowd would step in and try to regulate violence and keep it peaceful I would be all for it, but more times than not it doesn't happen and things spiral out of control quickly.


Because the media usually only shows violence in these events, the only thing society has to judge the validity of the protest on is what we can see. If I turn on the tv and I see a peaceful protest I am intrigued and want to learn about the cause. If I turn it on and see riots, looting, etc... I will very quickly dismiss the situation and ignore the protest because to me it no longer has validity because innocent people are now being endangered because someone (or a group of people) failed to state their case in such a way that I can connect with it and try to understand it.


It turns people off. Tell me your concerns and I'll lend both ears and all my attention. But if you cannot communicate with me in a peaceful manner I cannot listen. I think a lot of people think this way.
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Old 08-10-2016, 07:15 AM
 
40,170 posts, read 24,392,802 times
Reputation: 12666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nlambert View Post


Tell me your concerns and I'll lend both ears and all my attention. But if you cannot communicate with me in a peaceful manner I cannot listen. I think a lot of people think this way.
This is what people in power tell people without power. They intuitively feel they have the right to tell the protesters how to frame their protests. But it's not that they have the right. It's that they have the power. They are the ones being appealed to, so they have the upper hand. And that contributes to the feelings of powerlessness and frustration that protesters have.
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