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Old 08-10-2016, 05:25 PM
 
Location: *
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix C View Post
Here is the irony:

1850s, white fellow telling other whites blacks are like them and should integrate into Society. Other whites tell him he is betraying his race

2010s, black fellow telling other blacks they are like white folks and should integrate into Society. Other blacks tell him he is betraying his race.
I think you forgot to mention how some white folks tell black folks how they can 'fix themselves' in that same paternalistic fashion that hasn't changed much from the 1850s till present day.
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Old 08-10-2016, 05:38 PM
 
Location: *
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Take this for example before Ellis Bell comes back to clear up who is doing the advising here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
If the southern man would do what? From your link:

"Let us not bother our brains about what Providence intends to do with our Negroes in the distant future, but glory in and profit to the utmost by what He has done for them in transplanting them here, and setting them to work on our plantations. . . . True philanthropy to the Negro, begins, like charity, at home; and if Southern men would act as if the canopy of heaven were inscribed with a covenant, in letters of fire, that the Negro is here, and here forever; is our prop- erty, and ours forever; . . . they would accomplish more good for the race in five years than they boast the institution itself to have accom- plished in two centuries. . . ."
...
Granted, I don't know what the heck point she's trying to make here. White folks accomplishing 'good' for what race? (1800s)

Present day examples are all over this board! Some white folks telling black folks who to vote for to giving advice about raising their families. Just stop.
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Old 08-10-2016, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,786 posts, read 4,450,913 times
Reputation: 1407
Default you've mistaken me for someone who cares ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Take this for example before Ellis Bell comes back to clear up who is doing the advising here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell
If the southern man would do what? From your link:

"Let us not bother our brains about what Providence intends to do with our Negroes in the distant future, but glory in and profit to the utmost by what He has done for them in transplanting them here, and setting them to work on our plantations. . . . True philanthropy to the Negro, begins, like charity, at home; and if Southern men would act as if the canopy of heaven were inscribed with a covenant, in letters of fire, that the Negro is here, and here forever; is our prop- erty, and ours forever; . . . they would accomplish more good for the race in five years than they boast the institution itself to have accom- plished in two centuries. . . ."
Granted, I don't know what the heck point she's trying to make here. White folks accomplishing 'good' for what race? (1800s)

Present day examples are all over this board! Some white folks telling black folks who to vote for to giving advice about raising their families. Just stop.
Let me highlight it for you:

that the Negro is here, and here forever; is our prop- erty, and ours forever
Is the negro someone's property? Because if they are I stand corrected.

To that I responded with General Forrest:

General Forrest said, "When I entered the army I took 47 negroes into the army with me, and 45 of them were surrendered with me. I said to them at the start: 'This fight is against slavery; if we lose it, you will be made free; if we whip the fight, and you stay with me . . . I will set you free. In either case you will be free. [They] stayed with me, drove my teams, and better confederates did not live." FAQ for Black Confederate Soldier WebSite

The POTUS was speaking once and he told the story of his experience at being a black male teenager growing up in America. He goes into a store and the manager followed him around though out the store, watching him through the corner of his eyes.

When I was a teenage girl, there was a Perry's five and dime store in our neighborhood. I went into that store to purchase art supplies and every time I looked up, the manager was standing at the end of the isle I was on ....

I was born in 1961 same as the POTUS. He's a black male and I"m a white woman and funny we had the same exact experience growing up as a teenager in America.

It's called being a teenager.

And between you and I. I really do not give a rat's butt about any of this s-hit. I didn't then, don't now and I suspect I never will. If people treat me nice, I am nice back to them. If they don't; then I walk away and have nothing to do with them. And that's a fact. I don't care who they are.

PS: If you still do not understand why I asked the question, if the southern man would what? I don't know what to tell you ...

Last edited by Ellis Bell; 08-10-2016 at 06:17 PM.. Reason: ps
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Old 08-10-2016, 06:15 PM
 
Location: *
8,117 posts, read 2,428,166 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
Let me highlight it for you:

that the Negro is here, and here forever; is our prop- erty, and ours forever
Is the negro someone's property? Because if they are I stand corrected.

To that I responded with General Forrest:

General Forrest said, "When I entered the army I took 47 negroes into the army with me, and 45 of them were surrendered with me. I said to them at the start: 'This fight is against slavery; if we lose it, you will be made free; if we whip the fight, and you stay with me . . . I will set you free. In either case you will be free. [They] stayed with me, drove my teams, and better confederates did not live." FAQ for Black Confederate Soldier WebSite

The POTUS was speaking once and he told the story of his experience at being a black male teenager growing up in America. He goes into a store and the manager followed him around though out the store, watching him through the corner of his eyes.

When I was a teenage girl, there was a Perry's five and dime store in our neighborhood. I went into that store to purchase art supplies and every time I looked up, the manager was standing at the end of the isle I was on ....

I was born in 1961 same as the POTUS. He's a black male and I"m a white woman and funny we had the same exact experience growing up as a teenager in America.

It's called being a teenager.

And between you and I. I really do not give a rat's butt about any of this s-hit. I didn't then, don't now and I suspect I never will. If people treat me nice, I am nice back to them. If they don't; then I walk away and have nothing to do with them. And that's a fact. I don't care who they are.
Where did the quote come from, specifically who said it?
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Old 08-10-2016, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,786 posts, read 4,450,913 times
Reputation: 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
Let me highlight it for you:

that the Negro is here, and here forever; is our prop- erty, and ours forever
Is the negro someone's property? Because if they are I stand corrected.

To that I responded with General Forrest:

General Forrest said, "When I entered the army I took 47 negroes into the army with me, and 45 of them were surrendered with me. I said to them at the start: 'This fight is against slavery; if we lose it, you will be made free; if we whip the fight, and you stay with me . . . I will set you free. In either case you will be free. [They] stayed with me, drove my teams, and better confederates did not live." FAQ for Black Confederate Soldier WebSite

The POTUS was speaking once and he told the story of his experience at being a black male teenager growing up in America. He goes into a store and the manager followed him around though out the store, watching him through the corner of his eyes.

When I was a teenage girl, there was a Perry's five and dime store in our neighborhood. I went into that store to purchase art supplies and every time I looked up, the manager was standing at the end of the isle I was on ....

I was born in 1961 same as the POTUS. He's a black male and I"m a white woman and funny we had the same exact experience growing up as a teenager in America.

It's called being a teenager.

And between you and I. I really do not give a rat's butt about any of this s-hit. I didn't then, don't now and I suspect I never will. If people treat me nice, I am nice back to them. If they don't; then I walk away and have nothing to do with them. And that's a fact. I don't care who they are.

PS: If you still do not understand why I asked the question, if the southern man would what? I don't know what to tell you ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Where did the quote come from, specifically who said it?
That that is underlined in blue above is the link to the quote and it sits on a web site called, The Black Confederate Soldier.

If you're talking about your link, that mentions the negro as property, it's there too within your posts.
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Old 08-10-2016, 06:25 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
8,088 posts, read 7,753,284 times
Reputation: 6650
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
I think you forgot to mention how some white folks tell black folks how they can 'fix themselves' in that same paternalistic fashion that hasn't changed much from the 1850s till present day.
True. Middle class always that way. (Same in Victorian England towards the lower social orders and today if it is white middle class commenting on worthless whites so it transcends race.) I dislike the separation by color when stating a problem or solution. Plenty of non-blacks have the same problems as blacks. They should not be excluded from solutions. However it really is black commentators who instigate this need to separate themselves from others in American Society. So it is about black this, black that. And of course, white folks pile in when the inevitable black response is the problems can be traced to white people or heritage of white dominance over blacks in slavery form or jim crow. JC gaining ascendancy as that was only a few decades ago and anyone except the most blindered can see equating slavery is just an emotional proposition and not a practical one in rational debate.
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Old 08-10-2016, 06:36 PM
 
Location: *
8,117 posts, read 2,428,166 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
If the southern man would do what? From your link:

"Let us not bother our brains about what Providence intends to do with our Negroes in the distant future, but glory in and profit to the utmost by what He has done for them in transplanting them here, and setting them to work on our plantations. . . . True philanthropy to the Negro, begins, like charity, at home; and if Southern men would act as if the canopy of heaven were inscribed with a covenant, in letters of fire, that the Negro is here, and here forever; is our prop- erty, and ours forever; . . . they would accomplish more good for the race in five years than they boast the institution itself to have accom- plished in two centuries. . . ."
...

“Thus, the old difficulties and paradoxes appeared in new dress. It became easy to say and easier to prove that these black men were not men in the sense that white men were, and could never be, in the same sense, free. Their slavery was a matter of both race and social condition, but the condition was limited and determined by race. They were congenital wards and children, to be well-treated and cared for, but far happier and safer here than in their own land. As the Richmond, Virginia, Examiner put it in 1854:

"Let us not bother our brains about what Providence intends to do with our Negroes in the distant future, but glory in and profit to the utmost by what He has done for them in transplanting them here, and setting them to work on our plantations. . . . True philanthropy to the Negro, begins, like charity, at home; and if Southern men would act as if the canopy of heaven were inscribed with a covenant, in letters of fire, that the Negro is here, and here forever; is our property, and ours forever; . . . they would accomplish more good for the race in five years than they boast the institution itself to have accomplished in two centuries. . . .”


Excerpt From: Du Bois, W. E. B. (William Edward Burghardt), 1868-1963. “Black reconstruction; an essay toward a history of the part which black folk played in the attempt to reconstruct democracy in America, 1860-1880.” New York, Harcourt, Brace and Company, 1935. iBooks.

Compare & contrast 2016:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
To what end? What makes America so special? Is the U.S. unique and/or different than other countries and cultures?

Perhaps if people learned about the accepted practice of slavery and its origins, then there can be an understanding of how it was brought to the U.S. by migrating people of other cultures.

Perhaps if one understood that not all people thought the same way about the people bound by the accepted practice and sought to have them to become members of their family; delegating to them chores as other family members also contributed to chores ... there were those who once acquired freedom felt such a family tie to the members of the household they remained with them rather than leaving.

It seems too that I recall reading about African Americans in this country (from that era) who also possessed individuals who were slaves to work their farms.

There were people on both sides, right and wrong, of this practice. The only thing any of us can ever learn today by continuing this debate of slavery along these lines, is an understanding of just how benevolent people can still be, even after hundreds of years of passing.

The reality of slavery is none of us (who are fortunate today) will ever understand the good, the bad or the ugly of slavery. So again, to what end will these discussion get us?
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Old 08-10-2016, 06:55 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
66,574 posts, read 33,869,823 times
Reputation: 14285
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Take this for example before Ellis Bell comes back to clear up who is doing the advising here:



Granted, I don't know what the heck point she's trying to make here. White folks accomplishing 'good' for what race? (1800s)

Present day examples are all over this board! Some white folks telling black folks who to vote for to giving advice about raising their families. Just stop.
Are there really people in America who have no concept of the reality that slavery still exists in the USA?
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Old 08-10-2016, 07:17 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,786 posts, read 4,450,913 times
Reputation: 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
If the southern man would do what? From your link:

"Let us not bother our brains about what Providence intends to do with our Negroes in the distant future, but glory in and profit to the utmost by what He has done for them in transplanting them here, and setting them to work on our plantations. . . . True philanthropy to the Negro, begins, like charity, at home; and if Southern men would act as if the canopy of heaven were inscribed with a covenant, in letters of fire, that the Negro is here, and here forever; is our prop- erty, and ours forever; . . . they would accomplish more good for the race in five years than they boast the institution itself to have accom- plished in two centuries. . . ."
“Thus, the old difficulties and paradoxes appeared in new dress. It became easy to say and easier to prove that these black men were not men in the sense that white men were, and could never be, in the same sense, free. Their slavery was a matter of both race and social condition, but the condition was limited and determined by race. They were congenital wards and children, to be well-treated and cared for, but far happier and safer here than in their own land. As the Richmond, Virginia, Examiner put it in 1854:

"Let us not bother our brains about what Providence intends to do with our Negroes in the distant future, but glory in and profit to the utmost by what He has done for them in transplanting them here, and setting them to work on our plantations. . . . True philanthropy to the Negro, begins, like charity, at home; and if Southern men would act as if the canopy of heaven were inscribed with a covenant, in letters of fire, that the Negro is here, and here forever; is our property, and ours forever; . . . they would accomplish more good for the race in five years than they boast the institution itself to have accomplished in two centuries. . . .”


Excerpt From: Du Bois, W. E. B. (William Edward Burghardt), 1868-1963. “Black reconstruction; an essay toward a history of the part which black folk played in the attempt to reconstruct democracy in America, 1860-1880.” New York, Harcourt, Brace and Company, 1935. iBooks.
Compare & contrast 2016:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
To what end? What makes America so special? Is the U.S. unique and/or different than other countries and cultures?

Perhaps if people learned about the accepted practice of slavery and its origins, then there can be an understanding of how it was brought to the U.S. by migrating people of other cultures.

Perhaps if one understood that not all people thought the same way about the people bound by the accepted practice and sought to have them to become members of their family; delegating to them chores as other family members also contributed to chores ... there were those who once acquired freedom felt such a family tie to the members of the household they remained with them rather than leaving.

It seems too that I recall reading about African Americans in this country (from that era) who also possessed individuals who were slaves to work their farms.

There were people on both sides, right and wrong, of this practice. The only thing any of us can ever learn today by continuing this debate of slavery along these lines, is an understanding of just how benevolent people can still be, even after hundreds of years of passing.

The reality of slavery is none of us (who are fortunate today) will ever understand the good, the bad or the ugly of slavery. So again, to what end will these discussion get us?
The family of the biblical era, when the children are grown, they are to leave home, taking on a husband and/or a wife.
So go back to the first paragraph of the excerpt you provided in according to the slave and tell me what would you have the southern man to do? File 'em as property on their Federal Income Tax?
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Old 08-11-2016, 05:02 AM
 
Location: *
8,117 posts, read 2,428,166 times
Reputation: 2223
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
Let me highlight it for you:

that the Negro is here, and here forever; is our prop- erty, and ours forever
Is the negro someone's property? Because if they are I stand corrected.

To that I responded with General Forrest:

General Forrest said, "When I entered the army I took 47 negroes into the army with me, and 45 of them were surrendered with me. I said to them at the start: 'This fight is against slavery; if we lose it, you will be made free; if we whip the fight, and you stay with me . . . I will set you free. In either case you will be free. [They] stayed with me, drove my teams, and better confederates did not live." FAQ for Black Confederate Soldier WebSite
"These statements, however, were contradicted by Union survivors, as well as the letter of a Confederate soldier who graphically recounted a massacre. Achilles Clark, a soldier with the 20th Tennessee cavalry, wrote to his sister immediately after the battle:

"The slaughter was awful. Words cannot describe the scene. The poor, deluded, negroes would run up to our men, fall upon their knees, and with uplifted hands scream for mercy, but they were ordered to their feet and then shot down. I, with several others, tried to stop the butchery, and at one time had partially succeeded, but General Forrest ordered them shot down like dogs and the carnage continued. Finally our men became sick of blood and the firing ceased.[37]""

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Bedford_Forrest

This is the same General Forrest who later went on to become the grand wizard of the KKK in TN. If I'm not mistaken there are statues of him throughout the former Confederate Slaver States.
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