U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-14-2016, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Caribbean
7,642 posts, read 2,450,780 times
Reputation: 2760

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post

Well thanks however these points were made almost a century ago & the quote was from Mr. Du Bois.

I live in NY & have friends from Haiti. An extremely fascinating history, I've read books on recommendation although there's nothing like hearing from folks who know their own history. One of my most memorable 'tutorials' was on a 20 minute cab ride home from JFK.
DuBois was truly something. Those are the points that are sometimes missed in discussions between Black Americans and West Indians. Those realities were not the fault of Black Americans, and if the populations had been similar, West Indians would have been in the same position.

Haiti was and is an amazing nation and an inspiration for the rest of us. They caused a ripple effect and although Europe and the U.S. did everything to destroy the nation, Haiti and her people are still here. One of these days, I will get there...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-14-2016, 10:07 AM
 
Location: *
8,117 posts, read 2,428,166 times
Reputation: 2223
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineDeCoeur View Post
DuBois was truly something. Those are the points that are sometimes missed in discussions between Black Americans and West Indians. Those realities were not the fault of Black Americans, and if the populations had been similar, West Indians would have been in the same position.

Haiti was and is an amazing nation and an inspiration for the rest of us. They caused a ripple effect and although Europe and the U.S. did everything to destroy the nation, Haiti and her people are still here. One of these days, I will get there...
I wholeheartedly agree about Mr. Du Bois. I particularly like the clarity in his style of writing. I understand what you're saying about West Indian people who leave their County of origin to come to live here, home is home. The best thing about Haiti is the people (second best is the food!)!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2016, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,782 posts, read 4,450,913 times
Reputation: 1407
Default raise above raise 'en ...

[quote=ChiGeekGuest;45125938]
Quote:
“The system of slavery demanded a special police force and such a force was made possible and unusually effective by the presence of the poor whites. This explains the difference between the slave revolts in the West Indies, and the lack of effective revolt in the Southern United States. In the West Indies, the power over the slave was held by the whites and carried out by them and such Negroes as they could trust. In the South, on the other hand, the great planters formed proportionately quite as small a class but they had singularly enough at their command some five million poor whites; that is, there were actually more white people to police the slaves than there were slaves. Considering the economic rivalry of the black and white worker in the North, it would have seemed natural that the poor white would have refused to police the slaves.

But two considerations led him in the opposite direction. First of all, it gave him work and some authority as overseer, slave driver, and member of the patrol system. But above and beyond this, it fed his vanity because it associated him with the masters. Slavery bred in the poor white a dislike of Negro toil of all sorts. He never regarded himself as a laborer, or as part of any labor movement. If he had any ambition at all it was to become a planter and to own "n_____." To these Negroes he transferred all the dislike and hatred which he had for the whole slave system. The result was that the system was held stable and intact by the poor white.”

Excerpt From: Du Bois, W. E. B. (William Edward Burghardt), 1868-1963. “Black reconstruction; an essay toward a history of the part which black folk played in the attempt to reconstruct democracy in America, 1860-1880.” New York, Harcourt, Brace and Company, 1935. iBooks.
Him again. You know I thought he was a white guy. It wasn't until I looked him up, then saw where his beliefs lay, that I understood how he could get it wrong. (he lacks a valuable key of knowledge ~ sigh ~)

Israel stands today, because Abram was told to leave his (maw and paw) home take unto him his wife; directed him to the land he was to have and said here, you will become the father of a nation. (how far we have come over 3000 years)

Why people would rather listen to someone who advocates that adult people should be treated as children than some one who advocates that adults should pull themselves up by their bootstraps, is strange to me. However, whatever floats their boat.

People of Harvard education continue to debate a subject that seems the under educated just don't understand Black Confederates | Harvard Gazette .... or so they say. ~ sigh ~

I just finished up watching a movie titled "A Sunday Horse" in the movie the writers mention something that I had to just look it up. The Kentucky Derby

That and facts that are not secret still do not seem to lay this debate to rest, nor the strategy and the clear manipulation of governments to keep their citizens at odds with one another, ever really come to light. (although, it does but only to those who really know it)

So I have to ask this question, why would the Protestant teach the slave how to read, using the Bible that tells the story of Moses and the freeing of the Slave in Egypt if it wasn't to give them hope, if they were going to turn right around and steal that hope back away from them?

A quote stated in the movie, "A Sunday Horse", "Judge a man not by the color of his skin, but by the content of his character." ~ MLK ~

The Protestant ( the church split ) was not going to have the priest or a government tell them what to do, when to do it, or how to live their lives. The people that do not understand this, will never put this debate to rest. And it doesn't take a Harvard education to understand that ...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2016, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
8,088 posts, read 7,753,284 times
Reputation: 6650
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
I wholeheartedly agree about Mr. Du Bois. I particularly like the clarity in his style of writing. I understand what you're saying about West Indian people who leave their County of origin to come to live here, home is home. The best thing about Haiti is the people (second best is the food!)!
I read a great deal of official histories from the era and the scholarly works from Cambridge and Oxford press and the quality and clarity of writing is in my opinion superior to many academics today.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2016, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Caribbean
7,642 posts, read 2,450,780 times
Reputation: 2760
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
I wholeheartedly agree about Mr. Du Bois. I particularly like the clarity in his style of writing. I understand what you're saying about West Indian people who leave their County of origin to come to live here, home is home. The best thing about Haiti is the people (second best is the food!)!
I really could stand to read more of his work. It's terrible that I have not...any recommendations?

Yes, home is home...but it would behoove some West Indians to make more of an effort to learn a bit more about the experiences of Black Americans here. It makes for better relations.

Agreed re Haitian people. Unfortunately, I haven't had much of their food due to being vegetarian and having religious dietary restrictions (around meat-eating Haitian friends). Heard there are plenty other options though. So second best for me has to be the music. Not that I understand much kreyol but kompa is beautiful, especially kompa love. So romantic...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2016, 11:09 AM
 
Location: *
8,117 posts, read 2,428,166 times
Reputation: 2223
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineDeCoeur View Post
I really could stand to read more of his work. It's terrible that I have not...any recommendations?

Yes, home is home...but it would behoove some West Indians to make more of an effort to learn a bit more about the experiences of Black Americans here. It makes for better relations.

Agreed re Haitian people. Unfortunately, I haven't had much of their food due to being vegetarian and having religious dietary restrictions (around meat-eating Haitian friends). Heard there are plenty other options though. So second best for me has to be the music. Not that I understand much kreyol but kompa is beautiful, especially kompa love. So romantic...
I happen to like the one I keep on quoting in this thread! There are quite a few others because he continued to write throughout his life & lived in very interesting times.

One of the reasons I particularly appreciate Black reconstruction; an essay toward a history of the part which black folk played in the attempt to reconstruct democracy in America, 1860-1880 is because the timeframe is a significant (tumultuous) turning point in the history of the United States of America.

I understand what you're saying about some West Indian people. Some seem to be rather insulted that American children do not learn about their history in grammar school! Although they seem to thoroughly & perhaps somewhat intuitively understand why American people seem to have different understandings, mostly based on geography, when it comes to the American Civil War.

I haven't really gravitated toward Haitian music although I did appreciate it more when I visited. I can read & write French however that is not completely helpful when it comes to Creole. I can get by but mostly my Haitain friends want to improve their English & not really waste their time coaching me along in Creole.

Haitian artwork though? Absolutely love it! Have some (mostly small or average sized paintings) & one of my favorite pieces is 2 wood sculptures, one a man & one a woman, carved by a local street artist, they're lovely. He told me he carved them from the same piece of wood & explained his process to me.

Edit to include The Black Jacobins: Toussaint L'Ouverture and the San Domingo Revolution ~ this was one of the first books recommended to me by friends if you're interested in Haitian history. I've read others but that one stuck out in my mind because it was the first & I still have it on my bookshelves.

Last edited by ChiGeekGuest; 08-14-2016 at 11:23 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2016, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,599 posts, read 10,455,063 times
Reputation: 20410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry View Post
Not many people owned slaves was the point. A minute amount of the people does not reflect the southern church goers.
It may not reflect on southern church goers, but it certainly reflects on the church.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2016, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
22,599 posts, read 10,455,063 times
Reputation: 20410
Quote:
Originally Posted by lionsgators View Post
are there still cry babies out there with no concept that it's 2016?
Yes there are. Those conservatives who want to go back to everything the Founding Fathers said and did a quarter of a millennium ago.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2016, 11:27 AM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,159 posts, read 34,676,017 times
Reputation: 16292
Quote:
Originally Posted by blktoptrvl View Post
Bill O'Reilly Wants You To Know That The Slaves Who Built The White House Were Well-Fed

"Slaves that worked there were well-fed and had decent lodgings provided by the government, which stopped hiring slave labor in 1802. However, the feds did not forbid subcontractors from using slave labor."

What in the world could this passage mean? Could O'Reilly really thing that how well a slave is fed is a cogent argument - that "cuisine" offered makes slave-holding less of an abomination?

Do some people really think slavery was some kind of entry level job with just a few "perks?"
Well IMO the black American slave had it better than the Dalits aka Untouchables in India. And a better quality of life than being back in Africa where their tribe was being bullied by other dominant tribes and being sold into slavery to European traders.

And had there not been the outlet to sell to slave traders... instead your male African ancesters would hacked to death with machetes and your women either brutalized or also killed.

Go study your history further back and even today's current events in Africa. Genocide is still being practised by warring African tribes. And machetes are still being used.

Your people got a free ride to America. Sorry about the slavery experience, but it's time to move forward. Right now it's only your black urban/gangsta culture holding your people back. And stop trying to make white people feel guilty.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2016, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Caribbean
7,642 posts, read 2,450,780 times
Reputation: 2760
Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
Well IMO the black American slave had it better than the Dalits aka Untouchables in India. And a better quality of life than being back in Africa where their tribe was being bullied by other dominant tribes and being sold into slavery to European traders.

And had there not been the outlet to sell to slave traders... instead your male African ancesters would hacked to death with machetes and your women either brutalized or also killed.

Go study your history further back and even today's current events in Africa. Genocide is still being practised by warring African tribes. And machetes are still being used.

Your people got a free ride to America. Sorry about the slavery experience, but it's time to move forward. Right now it's only your black urban/gangsta culture holding your people back. And stop trying to make white people feel guilty.
HAHAHAH! The delusion is real! Look, stick to Asian history because speaking on anything else makes you sound quite stupid.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:00 PM.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top