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Old 07-27-2016, 07:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow View Post


American "debt" is a fiction created by "our" government. The chattel human collateral, decreed so in 1913 to the Central Banking Families and their fiat currency is a farce. We owe these Families nothing for their counterfeiting, partial reserve "banking" and usury scams. We should rightly hang all of those bloodlines from the nearest lightposts. They are parasites and nothing more. We owe them nothing.
A bit more radically stated than I would put it.


I think castration is more fun than execution as a means of punishment. Set the prime rate at 2% by statute then put a tax on the balance owing on debt. Including bank to bank loans. That puts congress in the position of regulating the economy not the banks.


(or is that out of the frying pan and into the fire)
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Old 07-27-2016, 07:45 PM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ContrarianEcon View Post
A bit more radically stated than I would put it.


I think castration is more fun than execution as a means of punishment. Set the prime rate at 2% by statute then put a tax on the balance owing on debt. Including bank to bank loans. That puts congress in the position of regulating the economy not the banks.


(or is that out of the frying pan and into the fire)
That is out of the frying pan and into the fire. A government monopoly of fiat currency is no better for the people than a private monopoly of fiat currency.

The only way for the people to ever have a chance to benefit from their labor and to actually experience their value to their fellow man must contain:

The elimination of a single "legal tender" monopoly for any person, group, or government.

The abolishment of usury

The abolishment of partial reserve "banking"

The abolishment of fiat currency

Then and only then will the people (here and worldwide) start to see and have access to the wealth that is now concentrated in the hands of a few Families and Friends.

Personally, I'd like to see a complete withdrawal from the money token system. (I am extreme here )

I think that a time-labor based trade system is necessary to completely eradicate the "money" scams from humanity.

*edit...Nah, I think the Rockerfellers, Morgans, Rothschilds, etc, rotting flesh in the summer would be ample warning to future Parasitic Families from creating new Plantations here. They are not humans and deserve no humane treatment...
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Old 07-27-2016, 08:46 PM
 
22,769 posts, read 26,219,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by branh0913 View Post
Back when I first started getting interested in politics around 2000 or so, I had no idea what the FED was. And I think most Americans had no idea what the FED was either. Only the most informed and financially savvy of the population knew what the FED did, and fewer knew what impact the FED had on the economy. Today I think the number of people who are aware of the FED is growing, and I feel more and more people are starting to see it's impact on the economy.

While I do think the Paul Krugman's of the world can most definitely shill for the FED, QE, and other intervetionist economic policies and get a lot support, I think that number is losing faith in the FED. More and more people are waking up and seeing that "debt is not good", which is the lie the FED has been telling us for decades. American's have reached a critical mass when it comes to debt, and I think most people are losing confidence in our "debt economy".


The thing is, there hasn't been an alternative to the FED until now. With blockchain technology cementing itself and ready to take off, I feel that more and more people are going to start moving their wealth into blockchain technology. I think everyone is upset with how unfair the banking system is these days, and how the government does everything in it's power to keep us in debt. While it seems unlikely today, pretty soon I feel that everyone will lose total confidence in the FED and the US dollar. And soon the world will abandon the idea of "central banks" for crytocurrencies and precious metals.
cool story bro
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Old 07-28-2016, 10:45 AM
 
3,792 posts, read 1,890,800 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow View Post
That is out of the frying pan and into the fire. A government monopoly of fiat currency is no better for the people than a private monopoly of fiat currency.

The only way for the people to ever have a chance to benefit from their labor and to actually experience their value to their fellow man must contain:

The elimination of a single "legal tender" monopoly for any person, group, or government.

The abolishment of usury

The abolishment of partial reserve "banking"

The abolishment of fiat currency

Then and only then will the people (here and worldwide) start to see and have access to the wealth that is now concentrated in the hands of a few Families and Friends.

Personally, I'd like to see a complete withdrawal from the money token system. (I am extreme here )

I think that a time-labor based trade system is necessary to completely eradicate the "money" scams from humanity.

*edit...Nah, I think the Rockerfellers, Morgans, Rothschilds, etc, rotting flesh in the summer would be ample warning to future Parasitic Families from creating new Plantations here. They are not humans and deserve no humane treatment...
As long as wages goes up faster than debt your economic anarchy doesn't need to be done.


We have a de facto labor based monetary system. $7.25 = one hour of un skilled labor. We can with purely domestic policies largely impose that on the rest of the world. With that raising wages doesn't effect international trade.


For practical reasons we wont abolish money. It has been with us for too long to be done.
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Old 07-28-2016, 11:01 AM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ContrarianEcon View Post
As long as wages goes up faster than debt your economic anarchy doesn't need to be done.


We have a de facto labor based monetary system. $7.25 = one hour of un skilled labor. We can with purely domestic policies largely impose that on the rest of the world. With that raising wages doesn't effect international trade.


For practical reasons we wont abolish money. It has been with us for too long to be done.
Are you talking about personal debt? I almost never talk about the micro economic scale. The private fiat currency system, usury, and partial reserve banking on the macro economic scale means...

For every dollar created, ten dollars plus "interest" of "debt" is created for the people forced to use the magic green toilet paper. It is a scam of perpetual slavery of the people and perpetual consolidation of wealth and assets by the Central Banking Families. As wages go up, the amount of currency must be increased, thus the fictional "debt" must increase ten fold as well...

I will depart from you as minimum wage being a "labor based" monetary system. When say a CEO can spend a day earning what a carpenter would earn in a lifetime. We have a system of leverage and exploitation, not a system of human exchange. (Exchange implies one trades value for value...our system says that the CEO's life is worth perhaps the lives of a million carpenters.) Again, I am extreme here...I just don't hold exploiting my fellow man up as a "virtue".

The "practical reasons" for not abolishing "money" is that the entire monetary scam, er system, is to allow those who create it to concentrate the wealth of humanity into their personal hands.
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Old 08-01-2016, 11:16 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow View Post
Are you talking about personal debt? I almost never talk about the micro economic scale. The private fiat currency system, usury, and partial reserve banking on the macro economic scale means...

For every dollar created, ten dollars plus "interest" of "debt" is created for the people forced to use the magic green toilet paper. It is a scam of perpetual slavery of the people and perpetual consolidation of wealth and assets by the Central Banking Families. As wages go up, the amount of currency must be increased, thus the fictional "debt" must increase ten fold as well...

I will depart from you as minimum wage being a "labor based" monetary system. When say a CEO can spend a day earning what a carpenter would earn in a lifetime. We have a system of leverage and exploitation, not a system of human exchange. (Exchange implies one trades value for value...our system says that the CEO's life is worth perhaps the lives of a million carpenters.) Again, I am extreme here...I just don't hold exploiting my fellow man up as a "virtue".

The "practical reasons" for not abolishing "money" is that the entire monetary scam, er system, is to allow those who create it to concentrate the wealth of humanity into their personal hands.
Total debt macro.


Personal debt in aggregate is also macro.



Wages going up faster than debt makes debt less burdensome.
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Old 08-01-2016, 12:20 PM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ContrarianEcon View Post
Total debt macro.

Personal debt in aggregate is also macro.

Wages going up faster than debt makes debt less burdensome.
The impossibility of debt...

For every increase in total "currency", "debt" is increased ten-fold plus interest by virtue of how the Money Cartel has designed the system. If "wages" increase for everyone, more currency must be "created", thereby increasing "debt". Further enslaving the people to the impossible "debt" to those with the monopoly over "currency" creation.

There are only so may "money tokens" available at any given time. If the "economy" expands, currency must expand, and thus "debt" expands even more. It is the same silly scams that the shylocks and money changers have been playing for millenia...

Humanity now toils on the plantation of the International Central Banking Families. The "monetary system" is one of perpetual slavery and theft. They consolidate the wealth of humanity for themselves without every producing, investing, or doing anything at all. A parasitic race of animals owns humanity like their personal chattel.
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Old 08-01-2016, 06:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow View Post
The impossibility of debt...

For every increase in total "currency", "debt" is increased ten-fold plus interest by virtue of how the Money Cartel has designed the system. If "wages" increase for everyone, more currency must be "created", thereby increasing "debt". Further enslaving the people to the impossible "debt" to those with the monopoly over "currency" creation.

There are only so may "money tokens" available at any given time. If the "economy" expands, currency must expand, and thus "debt" expands even more. It is the same silly scams that the shylocks and money changers have been playing for millenia...

Humanity now toils on the plantation of the International Central Banking Families. The "monetary system" is one of perpetual slavery and theft. They consolidate the wealth of humanity for themselves without every producing, investing, or doing anything at all. A parasitic race of animals owns humanity like their personal chattel.
you are talking about an exponential debt curve. Some kind of reset needs to be had.



But functional alternative hasn't been devised.
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Old 08-02-2016, 08:24 AM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ContrarianEcon View Post
you are talking about an exponential debt curve. Some kind of reset needs to be had.

But functional alternative hasn't been devised.
A functional alternative? Many economists who are not Banking Cartel backers suggest the gold standard is a viable alternative to fiat currency. And any non-Keynesian backs some form of commodity backed money token system. Fiat is, and has always been simply a tool of indirect theft by whomever has the power to "create" it. "Creation" of fiat simply devalues whatever currency is in existence. The creators effectively steal indirectly from everyone holding the counterfeit toilet paper. Furthermore, their theft is increased by the "velocity" of money. The creators get full value for their counterfeit before the people using it (the market) have noticed its devaluation. Fiat was first created simply as a method of indirect taxation.

Technically, fiat currency is unconstitutional as Congress only has (actually had) the power to create gold/silver coin. Everyone who ratified the Constitution knew the evil and the immoral scam that is "paper money" as they called it. Fiat is simply and purely evil, there is no way around it. It is a scam and a tool of criminals and counterfeiters. (Does not matter if fiat is controlled privately or by "government".)

However, gold (and also silver to a lesser extent) led to the takeover of the world's currencies by those who controlled vast holding of gold. Most have heard of the Rothschilds and their allies, but fail to see how they "forced" the hand of "our" government to cave into all of their demands. The hoarders of gold could simply flood the market with their holdings to create panics and manipulate the value of gold-backed currencies at will. The Bankers have always been at war with so-called nations in an effort to take them over. After manipulating the currencies and creating enough panics, "our" government let them write their own ticket to take over the country by offering us a "solution" to the problems that they created in the first place. The "Federal Reserve" was the "solution" to inflation and market fluctuations (that worked well didn't it? LOL) Essentially they run a "protection racket" which costs us whatever they demand.

More modern sane economists suggest that a "basket" of commodities would prevent these private "money cartels" from taking over nations economies. These "baskets" would be formed by a broad range of common commodities that are used, produced, and abundant throughout the world's markets. The idea being that no Rothschild type hoarding of such a broad and common group of commodities would be possible. This "basket" idea is far superior and rational compared to a single commodity for the above reason.

I personally think that they only way to free mankind from all of the "money" scams of fiat, usury, partial reserve "banking", and monopolies on "legal tender" is to move to a "time/labor" currency.

This would eliminate any possibility of hoarding "wealth". It would eliminate the absurdity of "wealth" creating more "wealth". Or in other words, the absurdity of consolidating wealth for one's self simply out of excess. A person's excess creating more excess without any production, investment, labor, or time is vile and disgusting. It is merely exploitation of others and profiteering upon those without access to a medium of exchange. It really is evil if one realizes that "money making money" is completely absurd. "Money" is a medium of exchange, not an investment, product, or labor. It is nothing more than a token.

If "money" is simply a medium of exchange, a way for people to make exchanges, why would anyone have to "borrow" it? Everyone should be able to make as many exchanges with their fellow man as they can. Why limit "money" at all if it is simply a medium of exchange?

A time/labor currency would stop anyone form earning more or less than what they have actually invested. No person could amass more than their lifetime investment in labor. No person would earn less than they had invested. There would be no people "worth" the lives of a million "regular" people. Sure, there would be those who had more, but only because they had labored more.

No person's life is worth twice, or a thousand times, the life of another. No person should have the "wealth" to buy a thousand other people's lives. A person is only worth what they offer to other people in fair equal exchanges. The "money token" system is not about making exchanges, it is completely about exploiting one another as much as possible.

Now the exploiters and profiteers would claim that they "deserve" to get more in exchange than they offer in "trade" with another. Why? Why is an hour of a lawyer's life worth say fifty hours of a carpenter's life? I say, there is no reason at all except the desire for one to exploit another and in a false sense of superiority to your fellow man. (One could argue that the lawyer went to college which means he invested a part of his life to education (and not working ). Well over the average worklife of a person, the lawyer then "sacrificed" 10% of his time in education...hardly justifying the 50X rate of his client's life.)

What about efficiency? "Time/labor" currency is not collectivism. Everyone is NOT paid the same. Everyone earns what they invest. And those who are most efficient with their time will have all the business that they can handle while those who are inefficient will not find anyone to trade with.

Anyway...that's scratching the surface. Bottom line, the "money" scams of the shylocks and money-changers need to stop if humanity is ever going to be free from those that enslave them. And the "monetary system" need serious reinventing if we are ever to move to a system of exchanges versus the current system of exploitation.
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Old 08-02-2016, 09:08 AM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,754 posts, read 4,441,100 times
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Originally Posted by irspow View Post
IF the Americans or their puppet government tried to oust the Central Banking Families monopoly or end the American Plantation, other debtor puppet governments of the Central Banking Families would wage war upon us and seize their assets (the slaves and "their" property). .

Hell "our" government will not even address any of the Banking schemes of the Money Cartel. I would like to be hopeful, but the reality is America is not the only slave nation. MOST of the "nations" on Earth are completely controlled by the Chosen Families. The remaining debtor puppet nations of the world would bomb us back to the stone age before they let us escape the Worldwide Plantation.
^^^^ This. I love it when smart people show up in a thread ...
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