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Old 08-02-2016, 06:21 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
66,519 posts, read 33,809,529 times
Reputation: 14252

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Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
The fact that her employer is a municipality has no bearing on the labor law in this case.

I don't know where you live, but in the United States, your employer can fire you for your beliefs, provided they do not fall into a 'protected class.' (race, color, gender, religion, national origin, age and disability.)

Some states might have more-restrictive laws at the state level which restrict what reasons an employer can fire an employee for, but as Georgia is a far-right, pro-employer state, it will obviously err on the side of the "rights of the employer." You know, gotta be "business friendly," and giving employers maximum control is part of that philosophy.

You can only be fired from government, if you are indicted for breaking a law, which involves due process.
The constitution are the chains that forbid government from firing a government employee over a 1st amendment right that government cannot punish, if no law was broken.
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Old 08-02-2016, 06:57 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,765 posts, read 4,442,494 times
Reputation: 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
From my perspective, I see the cause from the perspective of being the descendant of slaves. I value freedom. I like the life I have. I can vote. I have the same rights as everyone else. New Hampshire's state motto is "Live Free Or Die". I think along those lines. While slavery isn't the only reason, it is the primary reason. The Lost Cause goes back further with the slave state/free state divide. It goes back to Bleeding Kansas. It goes back to the Missouri Compromise, the Dred Scott case.


And there is some history about the Confederate flag: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tappan_Thompson



and
From my perspective (screen name I know, but still) I'm a woman. I value freedom and I can vote. A person's race is not the corning market.

The history of what you call the confederate flag goes farther back than Bleeding Kansas and that which is being termed the lost cause. If you will quit stopping yourself short and go farther into reading about the flag history, know that it (St. Andrew's Cross) is a battle flag, then its use will become self evident.

Slavery was a primary tool used by the north to weaken the south's resources in a war. When the south enlisted the slave into their military, that screwed it up for the north. To compensate in order to try and make things worse on the south, the north set the slave person free. The freed black man of the south, enlisted in the military. Not all of them I'm sure, but there were those that understood the battle pros and cons on a Union Government, some sided for the succession.

The propaganda the north used in order to win a civil war and have their union, continues to run rampart today. That which united us as a country, continues to divide us as a people. However, do note, there are those that know the whole truth that live and breath today and for them I am thankful they exist, because it is through them there is hope for humanity to live as one.

PS: Find the 'real' confederate flag.
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Old 08-02-2016, 07:08 PM
 
Location: Houston
22,539 posts, read 11,603,779 times
Reputation: 9093
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
You can only be fired from government, if you are indicted for breaking a law, which involves due process.
The constitution are the chains that forbid government from firing a government employee over a 1st amendment right that government cannot punish, if no law was broken.
Totally false. Even government employees can be fired tardyism, absenteeism, dereliction of duty, etc.

I think Rankin may apply here:

Quote:
In Rankin, on the other hand, a 5 to 4 majority concluded that the statement "If they go for him again, I hope they get him," made immediately following news of Hinckley's attempt to assassinate President Reagan, was speech on a matter of public concern. The Court ordered the deputy constable's reinstatement, noting that the remark--made only to a fellow employee--was not likely to affect either her ability to perform her largely clerical duties in the constable's office or public confidence in the office.
It seems like speech on a matter of public concern is protected and this gal may get her job back if she pursues it in the courts. Going to have to check the decision in Rankin.

Syllabus of decision in Rankin:

(b) Petitioners have not met their burden of demonstrating a state interest justifying respondent's discharge that outweighs her First Amendment rights, given the functions of the Constable's office, respondent's position therein, and the nature of her statement. Although that statement was made at the workplace, there is no evidence that it interfered with the efficient functioning of the office. Nor was there any danger that respondent had discredited the office by making the statement in public. Her discharge was not based on any assessment that her remark demonstrated a character trait that made her unfit to perform her work, which involved no confidential or policymaking role. Furthermore, there was no danger that the statement would have a detrimental impact on her working relationship with the Constable, since their employment-related interaction was apparently negligible. Pp. 483 U. S. 388-392.

I would say her act is definitely public and Rankin does not apply. The fact is government employees can be held to a minimal standard of conduct and without yet finding a case that has these exact specifics I think that her firing was within the boundaries of the Constitution.

Last edited by whogo; 08-02-2016 at 07:28 PM..
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Old 08-02-2016, 07:14 PM
 
593 posts, read 1,178,490 times
Reputation: 389
As a teacher, I guess its a good thing im a government employee because that logic means I get to keep the flag on my wall in class.
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Old 08-03-2016, 06:12 AM
Status: "I hate living in Georgia!!" (set 13 days ago)
 
48,186 posts, read 45,506,708 times
Reputation: 15339
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
From my perspective (screen name I know, but still) I'm a woman. I value freedom and I can vote. A person's race is not the corning market.

The history of what you call the confederate flag goes farther back than Bleeding Kansas and that which is being termed the lost cause. If you will quit stopping yourself short and go farther into reading about the flag history, know that it (St. Andrew's Cross) is a battle flag, then its use will become self evident.

Slavery was a primary tool used by the north to weaken the south's resources in a war. When the south enlisted the slave into their military, that screwed it up for the north. To compensate in order to try and make things worse on the south, the north set the slave person free. The freed black man of the south, enlisted in the military. Not all of them I'm sure, but there were those that understood the battle pros and cons on a Union Government, some sided for the succession.

The propaganda the north used in order to win a civil war and have their union, continues to run rampart today. That which united us as a country, continues to divide us as a people. However, do note, there are those that know the whole truth that live and breath today and for them I am thankful they exist, because it is through them there is hope for humanity to live as one.

PS: Find the 'real' confederate flag.
I never said the Confederate flag goes back to Bleeding Kansas. I said the issues culminating up to the Civil War can be traced back to Bleeding Kansas, and further back. Notice I mentioned the Missouri Compromise. And something else. Slavery was not gender based, it was race-based. So I have more stake in it as a Black man than I would as a man or woman.

The Confederate flag is the banner that represents the Confederate cause. Yes, there were several, but we are talking about this particular flag, which was also used by the Confederacy. The design might have come from St. Andrews Cross, but then again, the Nazi flag's design was stolen from a Buddhist design. It is about the cause it represents.

So what if the North enlisted escaped slaves, so what? So what if the South got weakenede because the North was willing to use slaves to fight in their army? Why is this bad for me? How is the north's "so-called" propaganda bad for me? Does any of this refute the fact that the South was so desperate to keep slavery that it was willing to secede, and go to war for it? I have documents to show you it was largely about slavery. Go look it up in the Articles of Secession. I understand Lincoln did not intend to free the slaves. That being said, this did not stop southern elites from being scared of Lincoln. To them, he represented abolition, which to them, was bad for their own economy.

Personally, I don't care about what would have happened to the South's economy. My motto is live free or die. Being dead is better than being slave.
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Old 08-03-2016, 09:37 AM
Status: "I hate living in Georgia!!" (set 13 days ago)
 
48,186 posts, read 45,506,708 times
Reputation: 15339
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATX Homeboy View Post
As a teacher, I guess its a good thing im a government employee because that logic means I get to keep the flag on my wall in class.
What flag? The US flag or the Confederate flag?
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Old 08-03-2016, 09:38 AM
Status: "I hate living in Georgia!!" (set 13 days ago)
 
48,186 posts, read 45,506,708 times
Reputation: 15339
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
Totally false. Even government employees can be fired tardyism, absenteeism, dereliction of duty, etc.

I think Rankin may apply here:



It seems like speech on a matter of public concern is protected and this gal may get her job back if she pursues it in the courts. Going to have to check the decision in Rankin.

Syllabus of decision in Rankin:

(b) Petitioners have not met their burden of demonstrating a state interest justifying respondent's discharge that outweighs her First Amendment rights, given the functions of the Constable's office, respondent's position therein, and the nature of her statement. Although that statement was made at the workplace, there is no evidence that it interfered with the efficient functioning of the office. Nor was there any danger that respondent had discredited the office by making the statement in public. Her discharge was not based on any assessment that her remark demonstrated a character trait that made her unfit to perform her work, which involved no confidential or policymaking role. Furthermore, there was no danger that the statement would have a detrimental impact on her working relationship with the Constable, since their employment-related interaction was apparently negligible. Pp. 483 U. S. 388-392.

I would say her act is definitely public and Rankin does not apply. The fact is government employees can be held to a minimal standard of conduct and without yet finding a case that has these exact specifics I think that her firing was within the boundaries of the Constitution.
Well, if this is the cause, I don't have any sympathy for Rankin.
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Old 08-03-2016, 10:56 AM
 
Location: *
8,103 posts, read 2,417,199 times
Reputation: 2217
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I never said the Confederate flag goes back to Bleeding Kansas. I said the issues culminating up to the Civil War can be traced back to Bleeding Kansas, and further back. Notice I mentioned the Missouri Compromise. And something else. Slavery was not gender based, it was race-based. So I have more stake in it as a Black man than I would as a man or woman.

The Confederate flag is the banner that represents the Confederate cause. Yes, there were several, but we are talking about this particular flag, which was also used by the Confederacy. The design might have come from St. Andrews Cross, but then again, the Nazi flag's design was stolen from a Buddhist design. It is about the cause it represents.

So what if the North enlisted escaped slaves, so what? So what if the South got weakenede because the North was willing to use slaves to fight in their army? Why is this bad for me? How is the north's "so-called" propaganda bad for me? Does any of this refute the fact that the South was so desperate to keep slavery that it was willing to secede, and go to war for it? I have documents to show you it was largely about slavery. Go look it up in the Articles of Secession. I understand Lincoln did not intend to free the slaves. That being said, this did not stop southern elites from being scared of Lincoln. To them, he represented abolition, which to them, was bad for their own economy.

Personally, I don't care about what would have happened to the South's economy. My motto is live free or die. Being dead is better than being slave.
I get you Green, you are honoring your family, it's Southern heritage.

The 'Lost Cause' mythology & its representative Confederate flag, is a crude attempt to remove race based & institutionalized slavery as the sine qua non matter of the Civil War. It's a tawdry attempt to reduce slavery, & black people themselves, as being historically irrelevant. They. Are. Not.

The 'Lost Causers', Neo-Confederates, & Confederate-Americans, along with the Racial 'Realists' & Supremacists (with whom they share common agendas) would like to be able to continue their cheap attempts, & to do so without scrutiny. Not. Gonna. Happen. Even if it were just you & I alone that have anything to say about it! (& it's not just you & I; Black Lives, past & present, DO Matter.)

& imho, this is the (other) thing.

Some people are doing the very same thing in the present day! They'd still like to render black Americans irrelevant in the present day. Fully revealed by the obliviousness of the Police Officer in the current example.

(By the way, did anyone notice her striking resemblance to Kim Davis? Or is that simply because they both seem to be proud of their unmindfulness & blatant insensibility?)

Last edited by ChiGeekGuest; 08-03-2016 at 11:17 AM.. Reason: Adding blatant
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Old 08-03-2016, 11:23 AM
Status: "I hate living in Georgia!!" (set 13 days ago)
 
48,186 posts, read 45,506,708 times
Reputation: 15339
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post
I get you Green, you are honoring your family, it's Southern heritage.

The 'Lost Cause' mythology & its representative Confederate flag, is a crude attempt to remove race based & institutionalized slavery as the sine qua non matter of the Civil War. It's a tawdry attempt to reduce slavery, & black people themselves, as being historically irrelevant. They. Are. Not.

The 'Lost Causers', Neo-Confederates, & Confederate-Americans, along with the Racial 'Realists' & Supremacists (with whom they share common agendas) would like to be able to continue their cheap attempts, & to do so without scrutiny. Not. Gonna. Happen. Even if it were just you & I alone that have anything to say about it! (& it's not just you & I; Black Lives, past & present, DO Matter.)

& imho, this is the (other) thing.

Some people are doing the very same thing in the present day! They'd still like to render black Americans irrelevant in the present day. Fully revealed by the obliviousness of the Police Officer in the current example.

(By the way, did anyone notice her striking resemblance to Kim Davis? Or is that simply because they both seem to be proud of their unmindfulness & insensibility?)
I feel that by valuing freedom, that is honoring my family and my country. By succeeding, by working hard, by voting, by doing and taking advantage of the things I wouldn't have had before, that is showing honor to my family and country.

Not only is the "Lost Cause" thing crude, it's delusional, and it is wrong. There are those who have this delusion that the South was so very good and the North so very bad.

It took alot of people to build the nation we have. Some of these revisionists want to remove the part where Blacks were enslaved and did alot of the grunt work that contributed to alot of wealth. I believe this has alot to do with
1) Having to admit that alot of atrocities took place.
2) Having to admit that the South got most of its wealth from the slave economy.
These two reasons would shut down the idea that the southern cause was something noble.
3) Some persons don't want to admit that Blacks also played a role in building the USA.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Neo-Confederates and the "race realists" were intersecting. There are those who want to return things to a "know your place" society.
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Old 08-03-2016, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,765 posts, read 4,442,494 times
Reputation: 1404
Default wow ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I never said the Confederate flag goes back to Bleeding Kansas. I said the issues culminating up to the Civil War can be traced back to Bleeding Kansas, and further back. Notice I mentioned the Missouri Compromise. And something else. Slavery was not gender based, it was race-based. So I have more stake in it as a Black man than I would as a man or woman.

The Confederate flag is the banner that represents the Confederate cause. Yes, there were several, but we are talking about this particular flag, which was also used by the Confederacy. The design might have come from St. Andrews Cross, but then again, the Nazi flag's design was stolen from a Buddhist design. It is about the cause it represents.

So what if the North enlisted escaped slaves, so what? So what if the South got weakenede because the North was willing to use slaves to fight in their army? Why is this bad for me? How is the north's "so-called" propaganda bad for me? Does any of this refute the fact that the South was so desperate to keep slavery that it was willing to secede, and go to war for it? I have documents to show you it was largely about slavery. Go look it up in the Articles of Secession. I understand Lincoln did not intend to free the slaves. That being said, this did not stop southern elites from being scared of Lincoln. To them, he represented abolition, which to them, was bad for their own economy.

Personally, I don't care about what would have happened to the South's economy. My motto is live free or die. Being dead is better than being slave.
The south enlisted slaves into the military, the north set them free, strategically thinking those in the south would bow out of the battle. And the south wouldn't have the man power to continue the war. But rather than bow out, some of the (freed) slaves fought in the Confederate Army as they sided with the secession. (you got that all so backwards it's unreal) The north had no intention of doing anything until after the south came up with their plan of action. That is why the north's propaganda is bad for you.

The northern states had no incentive to set the slave free as they began industrialization which was less predominate than in the south. The south needed the man power, the north did not. And if the south was scared of Lincoln, the war would have never started and we would not be having this discussion.

8 things you didn't know about the Confederate flag | PBS NewsHour

1. The Confederate battle flag was never the official flag of the Confederacy.
_____

Did you know that Robert E. Lee's family migrated from Scotland?

I don't know why I am even bothering with this as in seeing what you did to that one paragraph of mine ... The Articles of Secession, you picked out the parts you liked that sided with the idea in your head and just rolled with it.

Slavery was not race based. When the ships arrived carrying the slaves of the slave traders, the black man would be picked over the others because ... they were stronger and it was thought they could handle the heat better, yes, because of the color of their skin.

And if you think by being a black man you have more at stake than being a woman of the suffrage movement, then you have a severe case of tunnel vision.

Just know that when you see the Rebel (against government tyranny) battle flag and you see confederate flag and racism, that is where it starts being wrong and it just gets worse from there for you.

btw: If I was the lawyer on this case, I'd have the case thrown out, based on their ignorance.
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