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Old 08-05-2016, 08:58 AM
 
11,680 posts, read 7,067,088 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I let you know where I stand, and I make no bones about it. Why should I have an open mind considering the things said in the Confederate Constitution and the Articles of Secession? How does it benefit me as a Black man?
Why is another person's opinion only validated when it benefits you?
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Old 08-05-2016, 09:16 AM
 
79,555 posts, read 33,768,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I would imagine this takes place. I would also say this happens everywhere in America. From California to Maine, from Florida to Alaska, from Louisiana to Minnesota, from Georgia to Oregon. It's all over. Blacks, relative to other groups, are feared and hated the most. And I'm not saying this in absolutist terms, but mainly in relative terms. This isn't for every situation, but generally, Blacks are hated and feared more than anyone else. Even some Blacks don't like Blacks.

This is why this Confederate flag thing is a big issue for me. I can't trust anyone who endorses the Confederate flag. I have to consider that they endorse that lost cause, and therefore, have a fear and hatred of me as a Black man. I don't buy the "heritage not hate" line. Articles of Secession and the Confederate Constitution are what I base this on.

Funny you mention San Francisco. Back in the 50s and 60s, some police departments in California were recruiting White southerners because they felt that they could "deal with Blacks better". Considering how virulently anti-Black the South was during this time(Blacks were leaving the South in droves), something to think about.
While I understand and largely agree with you and I support your position I did post earlier where we used it in a school in the north and meant nothing at all negative about it.

There are exceptions BUT as I've pointed out many times the courts in this case must side with the defendant where there is any doubt. You can doubt my explanation of our use as the school on the South side of the system and that is all it is.

It takes on very different connotations where others civil rights are concerned. You (as in the big picture you) have no right to not be offended. A defendant does have a right to be treated fairly where the law is concerned and someone flying the flag can cause a doubt.

My two examples show where there are legitimate reasons where the law is concerned for that doubt.


(not really speaking to you directly, just adding overall)
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Old 08-05-2016, 09:20 AM
Status: "I hate living in Georgia!!" (set 22 days ago)
 
48,300 posts, read 45,597,478 times
Reputation: 15370
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
Why is another person's opinion only validated when it benefits you?
Because I look out for myself. I want to make sure I can trust the person I'm dealing with. I'm not open-minded to anyone who could pose a danger to me. A person's opinion can be dangerous to someone else depending on what the subject is. I look at every opinion and then look up some things. In the case of the Confederate flag, I have facts to back up that the Confederate cause, the lost cause, had alot of stake in keeping the slave economy alive. Being who I am, I know that my ancestors were in the South as slaves. That cause would have been to my detriment. I base this on documents stating that maintaining slavery and the racial order was a major goal. Based on this, I don't care what someone says about what it represents to them. I'm looking at facts. I'm thinking about who I can trust.
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Old 08-05-2016, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,793 posts, read 4,456,523 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
Why is another person's opinion only validated when it benefits you?
Mr. Green is not benefited at all through the Articles of the Secession. He stops short, so therefore, he does not give the whole story.

They're a good read. Through them one can learn just how it was that the south was railroaded by the northern states.

However, that doesn't even pertain to the situation(s) where a person can be terminated from their employment because of a symbol. It just gets crazier from here ...

~ Don't Tread on Me ~ will be next. I know the two flags, go hand in hand.
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Old 08-05-2016, 09:23 AM
 
11,680 posts, read 7,067,088 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
Because I look out for myself. I want to make sure I can trust the person I'm dealing with. I'm not open-minded to anyone who could pose a danger to me. A person's opinion can be dangerous to someone else depending on what the subject is. I look at every opinion and then look up some things. In the case of the Confederate flag, I have facts to back up that the Confederate cause, the lost cause, had alot of stake in keeping the slave economy alive. Being who I am, I know that my ancestors were in the South as slaves. That cause would have been to my detriment. I base this on documents stating that maintaining slavery and the racial order was a major goal. Based on this, I don't care what someone says about what it represents to them. I'm looking at facts. I'm thinking about who I can trust.
And you should have the right to have those feelings just like someone else has the right to define what a symbol means to them.
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Old 08-05-2016, 09:25 AM
 
6,706 posts, read 1,391,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
Symbols evolve - it doesn't matter what the confederate cause WAS. You can't tell me everyone displaying a confederate flag (aka rebel flag) in 2016 has the goal of expanding slavery. That's like saying displaying an American flag means you support American laws and values in 1800.
Actually, it has been my observation that most people who fly the U.S. flag in front of their homes DO support the laws and values of 1800!

(But that is not to say that all the laws and values of 1800 were bad, though, and by that I mean such things as having a strong work ethic, for example.)
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Old 08-05-2016, 09:25 AM
Status: "I hate living in Georgia!!" (set 22 days ago)
 
48,300 posts, read 45,597,478 times
Reputation: 15370
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
And you should have the right to have those feelings just like someone else has the right to define what a symbol means to them.
To me, it is about my survival. People are entitled to their opinions. I am entitled to my survival. If I can't trust some individuals, I'd have every reason to be afraid of them, and I'd wonder the threat the pose to me.
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Old 08-05-2016, 09:27 AM
 
11,680 posts, read 7,067,088 times
Reputation: 6387
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
To me, it is about my survival. People are entitled to their opinions. I am entitled to my survival. If I can't trust some individuals, I'd have every reason to be afraid of them, and I'd wonder the threat the pose to me.
Just as some may look at black crime statistics and feel afraid.
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Old 08-05-2016, 09:28 AM
 
79,555 posts, read 33,768,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiehaskell View Post
Just as some may look at black crime statistics and feel afraid.
He addressed that. By noting this, especially after he acknowledged and addressed it, you are defending his position.
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Old 08-05-2016, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
8,793 posts, read 4,456,523 times
Reputation: 1409
Quote:
Originally Posted by whocares811 View Post
Actually, it has been my observation that most people who fly the U.S. flag in front of their homes DO support the laws and values of 1800!

(But that is not to say that all the laws and values of 1800 were bad, though, and by that I mean such things as having a strong work ethic, for example.)
Less government intervention into our personal lives.
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