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You are being manipulated. Venezuela is as "socialist" as North Korea is "democratic". These countries are simply using these labels as masks to prop up their regimes. You live in a free country where information is available. You dont understand the difference between social democracy (Canada, FDR, Germany etc) and socialism (workers owning the means of production). Then you stir it all around with some confusion about third world dictatorships (USSR, Vietnam, Cuba etc) that use these labels for propaganda purposes. Its a mess!
I don't care what you call it. Anytime government takes control of an industry, it is not in the people's best interest.
The more control the government has, and the less control the people have - your country, your state, your city, your community - whatever the entity is - will trend downward.
I don't care what you call it. Anytime government takes control of an industry, it is not in the people's best interest.
The more control the government has, and the less control the people have - your country, your state, your city, your community - whatever the entity is - will trend downward.
Right. So your ideal is Somalia or Haiti. Weak or non-existent governments. Godspeed!
Won't matter to those that believe in the socialist utopian ideal, but great information for the rest of us.
Thanks for posting it!
You are welcome. People should learn from these occurrences.
People talk about learning from history... this is going on today... and for the past 18 years. Not that I want to see Venezuelans suffer like this, but we can watch it play out right in front of us and learn from it.
Right. So your ideal is Somalia or Haiti. Weak or non-existent governments. Godspeed!
I honestly do not see how you can downplay the concept of what has taken place in Venezuela - and misconstrue my position about the role of government as though I want a Haiti or Somalia existence.
Do you not want the best for the citizens in the U.S.? It comes through freedom and minimal government interference - as it always has been.
Don't get me started on Haiti and the Clinton Foundation. I hit that in the Election forum big time. I have no problem doing it again.
I honestly do not see how you can downplay the concept of what has taken place in Venezuela - and misconstrue my position
You are just easily manipulated. North Korea calls itself democratic. Venezuela calls itself socialistic. They fact that you believe this is astonishing. If you lived in those countries, maybe you had some excuse for being so uninformed but you dont.
Your hatred of government leads to Somalia. Its ironic that you use a computer and the internet, both a result of government research. Just like nuclear energy, satellites, the moon landing and countless other major human achievements. But keep on truckin' for the donor class though. If you get an education you dont need to work as a shill for the rich.
The economic collapse of Venezuela is less about the socialistic aspects of the government than it is about the collapse of the prices for their near asphaltic crude oil. the world does not need this stuff as because the supplies of much cheaper to refine crude is available from domestic US sources.
It was not how the government distributed the profits from selling the oil but was because the government could not sell the oil at all.
PS: this also applies to the Appalachian soft coal. when your customers do not want your resources you cannot keep a resource extraction economy functioning at previous levels of prosperity.
Venezuela is the model for socialism, no other country is successful?
The drop in oil prices is killing them, they have no other industry to fall back on.
Their production is also down by some staggering percentage because they didn't reinvest in oil production and no one in their right mind would invest there or Chavez would just seize their assets "for the people".
Chavez served up "golden goose dinner" and now people want eggs for breakfast and Maduro is left empty handed.
I warned about this in posts here from years and years ago, it was inevitable.
The economic collapse of Venezuela is less about the socialistic aspects of the government than it is about the collapse of the prices for their near asphaltic crude oil. the world does not need this stuff as because the supplies of much cheaper to refine crude is available from domestic US sources.
It was not how the government distributed the profits from selling the oil but was because the government could not sell the oil at all.
PS: this also applies to the Appalachian soft coal. when your customers do not want your resources you cannot keep a resource extraction economy functioning at previous levels of prosperity.
When they discovered oil they went away from agriculture and never came back. Good example of why basing an economy that is reliant on taking resources out of the ground is tenuous. The golden goose isn't laying any more eggs in Venezuela or North Dakota. Plunging oil prices aren't good for socialism or capitalism.
You are just easily manipulated. North Korea calls itself democratic. Venezuela calls itself socialistic. They fact that you believe this is astonishing. If you lived in those countries, maybe you had some excuse for being so uninformed but you dont.
Your hatred of government leads to Somalia. Its ironic that you use a computer and the internet, both a result of government research. Just like nuclear energy, satellites, the moon landing and countless other major human achievements. But keep on truckin' for the donor class though. If you get an education you dont need to work as a shill for the rich.
You are big on assumptions, and continue to misconstrue what I say.
I do not hate government. I have always stated that government does have a role. Government research is one thing. Government telling me how to spend my money is out of bounds. Government running industries is out of bounds. I guess you are OK with the system in place in Venezuela that caused this. If you are OK with a system that puts nincompoops in charge of every facet of life... you deserve Venezuela.
The economic collapse of Venezuela is less about the socialistic aspects of the government than it is about the collapse of the prices for their near asphaltic crude oil. the world does not need this stuff as because the supplies of much cheaper to refine crude is available from domestic US sources.
It was not how the government distributed the profits from selling the oil but was because the government could not sell the oil at all.
PS: this also applies to the Appalachian soft coal. when your customers do not want your resources you cannot keep a resource extraction economy functioning at previous levels of prosperity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy
Their production is also down by some staggering percentage because they didn't reinvest in oil production and no one in their right mind would invest there or Chavez would just seize their assets "for the people".
Chavez served up "golden goose dinner" and now people want eggs for breakfast and Maduro is left empty handed.
I warned about this in posts here from years and years ago, it was inevitable.
Animal Farm is alive and well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight
When they discovered oil they went away from agriculture and never came back. Good example of why basing an economy that is reliant on taking resources out of the ground is tenuous. The golden goose isn't laying any more eggs in Venezuela or North Dakota. Plunging oil prices aren't good for socialism or capitalism.
You guys can blame oil all you want. It's not oil's fault that their system is set up the way it is.
Central planning government put all of their eggs in the oil basket. I am sure there are many smart people in Venezuela... that if they were freely unleashed to pursue their passions and profit from their efforts, their economy would be much more diversified - and this oil downturn would not hurt so much.
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