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Old 08-11-2016, 01:59 PM
 
3,569 posts, read 2,520,942 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
Much like your response? I see you chose not to counter even one of his/her points.
There were no points to counter. My post points that out--it was a series of strawmen, nothing more.
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Old 08-11-2016, 02:05 PM
 
20,724 posts, read 19,363,240 times
Reputation: 8288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
Much like your response? I see you chose not to counter even one of his/her points.

The hucksters were answered long ago, even though its not easy to take on all the leaches.


Too little to late, the French were dead meat.

Anne-Robert-Jacques Turgot: The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics | Library of Economics and Liberty
Turgot applied many of his laissez-faire economic beliefs during his thirteen-year appointment (1761–1774) as chief administrator for the Limoges district under Louis XV and as minister of finance, trade, and public works from 1774 to 1776 under newly anointed Louis XVI. In the latter job one of his first measures was to abolish all restrictions on sales of grain within France, a measure the Physiocrats had long advocated.

Oh free trade. The blue bloods love that one so were good, right?

Turgot abolished the guild system left over from medieval times. The guild system, like occupational licensing today, prevented workers from entering certain occupations without permission. Turgot also argued against the regulation of interest rates.

Anti union! Anti-regulation ! Wow this guy is just perfect right?

He ended the government’s policy of conscripting labor to build and maintain roads, and replaced it with a more efficient tax in money.

Awe shucks..Sound a lot like sales taxes on labor to improve infrastructure which jacks up the value of land doesn't it? But why would someone like Turgot suddenly lose his senses and turn land owning "capitalists". Could it be his isn't the idiot?

Privileged monopolies, furthermore, raised prices severely and encouraged smuggling. Taxes on capital destroyed accumulated thrift and hobbled industry. Turgot's eloquence was confined to pillorying bad taxes rather than elaborating on the alleged virtues of the land tax. Turgot's summation of the tax system was trenchant and hard-hitting: "It seems that Public Finance, like a greedy monster, has been lying in wait for the entire wealth of the people."
TURGOT ON PROGRESS AND POLITICAL ECONOMY

Although Turgot was familiar with, and close to, the Physiocrats with respect to their views on economics, he goes further than they do and in a different direction. Like the physiocrats, he promoted free trade and advocated a single tax on the net product of land. He wanted taxes to be shifted back to agriculture. Turgot agrees with the physiocrats that, because ultimately only agriculture is productive, there should be a single tax on land. Taxation of land was thus the only proper source of revenue for the state. He saw land as a unique form of wealth and presented an early view of the law of diminishing returns in agriculture. Turgot's ultimate goal was actually to eliminate taxes. Not a full-fledged physiocrat, he was more interested in abolishing taxes than exacting them on agricultural land. However, as long as taxation was a reality, his "ideal" in taxation would be a single imposition levied only on land. Turgot recommended taxing only the landowners and not the tenants.


and of course the best part....


Anne-Robert-Jacques Turgot: The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics | Library of Economics and Liberty
Louis XVI did not welcome Turgot’s reforms and dismissed him in 1776. Some historians claim that had Turgot’s reforms been kept, the French revolution might not have erupted thirteen years later.
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Old 08-11-2016, 02:08 PM
 
3,792 posts, read 2,385,439 times
Reputation: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
If corporate debt-fueled corporate expansion wasn't taking place in the US, as you assert, we wouldn't have had the employment peak in 2007.
Housing bubble? The creation of something that will not be replaced is not a sustainable economic plan. We need to be creating the things we consume in order to be long term sustainable. Or trading thing others consume that need to be replaced to have long term sustainability. Creating housing to put people to work doesn't work long term as housing doesn't need to be replaced often enough.
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Old 08-11-2016, 02:14 PM
 
3,569 posts, read 2,520,942 times
Reputation: 2290
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Here is a classical example legal asset:

Sex.com Sale For $13M Completes; Previous Purchase Price Was $11.5 Million
Announcing the completion of the sale the domain name Sex.com for $13 Million Dollars cash.

The value of the domain is an inherent monopoly, based completely on an artifact of the English language. It is not a product of human labor anymore than a spectacular view. Thus any capital appreciation from owning it is entirely due to the exclusive use which is legally protected by da guberment. One just like it cannot be manufactured. Sadly this is the sort of thing that most easily secures loans. Would want to finance real capital now would we because thay might actually go down in price with better efficiency.

Now, how does the rich pouring their money into domains "trickle down" to capitalists? If anything a rising price might make it worse since there is uneven competition....

However the point is not that I really care about someone's free ride of $13 million. What does irritate the crap out of me is we just have to have direct taxes on labor , and by that virtue industrial capital, but apparently taxing an asset like this is just so wrong, even though its entirely created by da guberment. A jar of pickles is a jar of pickles without da guberment. A hammer is a hammer without da guberment. A domain name , copyright , deed, title or patent is worthless without da guberment. Seems to me that those sorts of things enjoyed so often by the rich should have users fees, just like everyone else. But that would only be consistent with the kind of economics that founded this country.....
A domain name is an "inherent monopoly" in the same sense that a parcel of real property is an "inherent monopoly." Google.com, likewise, is a domain name whose value has skyrocketed. Of course, prior to the existence of Google the search engine, Google.com would have an extremely low value. But Google the company has invested a great deal of money, become a very popular collection of technology services, and Google.com has appreciated by virtue of that investment & popularity.

There are some parcels of real property that have considerable value by virtue of the luck of how the land was formed (and how the boundaries were drawn). Large hilltop parcels near job centers with ocean views, for example. Other parcels have some "inherent" value but have dramatically appreciated due to capital investment. Say an open parcel of land that was bought, graded, and had a shopping center built on top of it. I think that's the best analogy to domain names. Sex.com is a parcel that has a lot of inherent value because of the English language. Google.com is a parcel that has little inherent value, but tremendous current value due to the investment and labor that built Google the global tech giant.

Most states have a property tax that represents a "user fee" for ownership of real property. Income and capital gains taxes do the same for intangible properties.

The nice thing about domain names, much like real estate, is that there are a lot of options. If you don't want to pay the going rate for the hilltop mansion with an ocean view, then you can look at the attached townhome with a small yard and street parking. If you don't want to pay the going rate for Google.com, you can look at Googel.com or Ggleoo.com or any number of other options.
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Old 08-11-2016, 02:21 PM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13712
Quote:
Originally Posted by ContrarianEcon View Post
Housing bubble?
That was a personal debt-created fiasco, as I've already explained:

Tens of thousands of home owners are 5+ years behind on their mortgages, the statute of limitations on foreclosure has expired, and therefore they get their homes without ever having to pay another thin dime in mortgage payments. The money that WOULD have gone towards making their mortgage payments is now in their pockets, and they spend it on something else.

The Federal Reserve created $2 trillion dollars worth of QE for that specific purpose.
Quote:
"There are tens of thousands of homeowners who have missed more than five years of mortgage payments, many of them clustered in states like Florida, New Jersey, and New York, where lenders must get judges to sign off on foreclosures.

However, in a growing number of foreclosure cases filed when home prices collapsed during the financial crisis, lenders may never be able to seize the homes because the state statutes of limitations have been exceeded, according to interviews with housing lawyers and a review of state and federal court decisions.

“No one gets a free house,” Judge Michael B. Kaplan of the United States Bankruptcy Court in Trenton wrote in an opinion late last year, reflecting what he characterized as a longstanding “admonition” he and others made during the foreclosure crisis. But after effectively ending a New Jersey homeowner’s foreclosure case in November because the state’s six-year statute of limitations had expired, he wrote in his opinion, “With a proper measure of disquiet and chagrin, the court now must retreat from this position.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/30/bu...ires.html?_r=0

Not all those homes were new construction. Meaning, NOT as many new home construction jobs were created as you seem to think.

$2 trillion in QE to bail out HUD's/GSEs' FAILED "Affordable Lending" programs government intervention that nearly took down the entire economy. Fannie and Freddie. NOT banks. NOT Wall Street.

Read the disclosures:

The Federal Reserve's Agency (GSE: Fannie and Freddie) MBS in 2008: $0
FRB: H.4.1 Release--Factors Affecting Reserve Balances--December 4, 2008

The Federal Reserve's current Agency (GSE: Fannie and Freddie) MBS: $1.75 Trillion
https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h41/current/

More info on how the scam works...

De facto bailout for Freddie and Fannie? | Roosevelt Institute

And not only are taxpayers paying interest on that ~$2 trillion, but that $2 trillion artificially injected into the economy devalued the US Dollar, as well.
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Old 08-11-2016, 02:23 PM
 
3,792 posts, read 2,385,439 times
Reputation: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
That was a personal debt-created fiasco, as I've already explained:

Tens of thousands of home owners are 5+ years behind on their mortgages, the statute of limitations on foreclosure has expired, and therefore they get their homes without ever having to pay another thin dime in mortgage payments. The money that WOULD have gone towards making their mortgage payments is now in their pockets, and they spend it on something else.

The Federal Reserve created $2 trillion dollars worth of QE for that specific purpose.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/30/bu...ires.html?_r=0

Not all those homes were new construction. Meaning, NOT as many new home construction jobs were created as you seem to think.

$2 trillion in QE to bail out HUD's/GSEs' FAILED "Affordable Lending" programs government intervention that nearly took down the entire economy. Fannie and Freddie. NOT banks. NOT Wall Street.

Read the disclosures:

The Federal Reserve's Agency (GSE: Fannie and Freddie) MBS in 2008: $0
FRB: H.4.1 Release--Factors Affecting Reserve Balances--December 4, 2008

The Federal Reserve's current Agency (GSE: Fannie and Freddie) MBS: $1.75 Trillion
https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h41/current/

More info on how the scam works...

De facto bailout for Freddie and Fannie? | Roosevelt Institute

And not only are taxpayers paying interest on that ~$2 trillion, but that $2 trillion artificially injected into the economy devalued the US Dollar, as well.
And how does this address the issue of employment being driven by the housing bubble not so much corporate expansion inside of the US?


Then we had the oil bubble.
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