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Old 08-13-2016, 03:16 PM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,719,635 times
Reputation: 14745

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Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Go back and read it, and the post you responded too. The argument here isn't if its better or worse for the average American, its is it better or worse for the people in the specified categories.
If someone claims their position is undisputed, the burden is on them to prove it -- not on everyone else to disprove it.

Quote:
Additionally there are some factors not being considered. Long term will we be better off if we lose these hard earned skills, and expertise to the rest of the world. The answer is....its good for the world, but not for America.

Even worse is....what about the median American? Cause lets be honest....lower wages to folks just means the .1% is getting richer, while the rest of us aren't.
I really don't think my posts were that confusing.
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Old 08-13-2016, 05:21 PM
 
62,872 posts, read 29,103,656 times
Reputation: 18559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Wrong! It is mostly Democrats that support it not the Democrats. Do you have a link to your claims?

I meant to say not the Republicans.
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Old 08-13-2016, 09:42 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,647 posts, read 26,363,905 times
Reputation: 12648
Quote:
Originally Posted by katzpaw View Post
Trump uses/misuses the guest worker program to staff Mar-a-Lago and his other resorts/hotels.
USA! USA!



Trump doesn't make the rules.


When Trump gets a chance to makes the rules, he can change that.
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Old 08-13-2016, 09:45 PM
 
32,059 posts, read 15,040,845 times
Reputation: 13664
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyRider View Post
How do you then explain the unions falling behind "immigration reform?" They are actively recruiting competition for their members. Doesn't make sense.
No, the unions are totally against these visas because it takes jobs away from americans
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Old 08-13-2016, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Montgomery County, PA
16,569 posts, read 15,258,911 times
Reputation: 14590
Quote:
Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
No, the unions are totally against these visas because it takes jobs away from americans
Absolutely not true. They should be but they are not. They have abandoned their rank and file and fell in line behind the Democratic party. When was the last time they fought with Democrats over immigration?
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Old 08-13-2016, 09:55 PM
 
Location: Twin Falls Idaho
4,996 posts, read 2,442,962 times
Reputation: 2540
Average American here...Don't like illegal immigration. I am in favor of a strictly administered guest worker program..primarily for Ag..
As an average American, I enjoy the low produce prices and high yields that a cheap labor force gives us.
I'm also made uneasy by some whose rhetoric thinly conceals their obvious racism.
As an aside, when I was a teenager I worked the fields of California and the apple orchards of Washington...did not see a lot of white folks standing in line for those jobs..so I doubt the veracity of the "taking American Jobs" argument in the Agricultural field.
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Old 08-13-2016, 09:58 PM
 
32,059 posts, read 15,040,845 times
Reputation: 13664
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyRider;45122902[B
]Absolutely not true. They should be but they are not.[/b] They have abandoned their rank and file and fell in line behind the Democratic party. When was the last time they fought with Democrats over immigration?
They most certainly are.
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Old 08-13-2016, 10:02 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,557 posts, read 17,256,908 times
Reputation: 37268
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilEyeFleegle View Post
Average American here...Don't like illegal immigration. I am in favor of a strictly administered guest worker program..primarily for Ag..
As an average American, I enjoy the low produce prices and high yields that a cheap labor force gives us.
I'm also made uneasy by some whose rhetoric thinly conceals their obvious racism.
As an aside, when I was a teenager I worked the fields of California and the apple orchards of Washington...did not see a lot of white folks standing in line for those jobs..so I doubt the veracity of the "taking American Jobs" argument in the Agricultural field.
That's pretty much my position, too.

Illegal workers don't bother me. Illegal criminals? 'Nother thing.
We just need a way to vet them as they come in and a way for them to pay taxes. Then they'll have no reason to trek across the desert. Walls. Gates. ID cards.
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Old 08-14-2016, 03:51 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,647 posts, read 26,363,905 times
Reputation: 12648
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilEyeFleegle View Post
Average American here...Don't like illegal immigration. I am in favor of a strictly administered guest worker program..primarily for Ag..
As an average American, I enjoy the low produce prices and high yields that a cheap labor force gives us.
I'm also made uneasy by some whose rhetoric thinly conceals their obvious racism.
As an aside, when I was a teenager I worked the fields of California and the apple orchards of Washington...did not see a lot of white folks standing in line for those jobs..so I doubt the veracity of the "taking American Jobs" argument in the Agricultural field.



When I was a kid, we all picked fruit and vegetables in the summer to earn cash (Rowe's Farm, Ypsilanti, MI).


The fields were full of young people (9-13) who weren't yet old enough for a real job.


When I finally reached the age of sixteen (1978) and ready for formal employment, the money I earned during that era ($13.28-$14.79/hr. when adjusted for inflation) was significantly more than is common for low-skilled labor today.


Back then, with far fewer illegal workers available, the economy operated by a different set of rules.


There was a demand for workers and work paid!


As for your static argument that illegal immigrants are not taking jobs Americans actually want, it assumes wrongly that these same jobs would pay the same low wages/commissions in the absence of illegals willing to work for practically any wage.


When fewer workers are available, wages increase.


A job that is undesirable at one wage will be desirable when it pays more.


And since the working poor spend everything they earn, a related benefit is that consumer demand will increase.


With more money going to the bottom 80% for whom it is taxable income instead of the top 1% who stash it away, income tax revenue will increase.


Of course, what is just as bad as the wealthy taking money out of the economy is illegals sending money back home where it benefits non-Americans and screws the US.


I want income earned in the US to be spent in the US and I would like as much as possible to be spent on American-made products and services.


A one-percenter putting that money into a hedge fund raises prices on produce and everything else, so why not get it into the hands of someone who will spend it instead of someone who will use it to suck the life out of the economy?




Why would you automatically assume those who want to make life better for America's working poor are motivated by racism?


Maybe your desire for cheap produce has blinded you to the fact that illegals cost us all far more than we could ever save on lettuce and cherries.

Last edited by momonkey; 08-14-2016 at 04:06 AM..
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Old 08-14-2016, 05:21 AM
 
33,325 posts, read 12,491,270 times
Reputation: 14917
Quote:
Originally Posted by katzpaw View Post
Trump uses/misuses the guest worker program to staff Mar-a-Lago and his other resorts/hotels.
USA! USA!
Hillary plans to get a bill introduced for comprehensive immigration reform (amnesty) within her first 100 days, which will be worse for citizens who happen to be employees (rather than being self employed) than what is credited to Trump above.
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