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Whats the purpose of this topic? as i could Google search and post many stories on the incompetence of the American healthcare system.
I notice this is the second topic this week in the P&OC section that comes across as a derogatory diatribe against Canada, if you want to trash Canada why not post in the Canada section?
Whats the purpose of this topic? as i could Google search and post many stories on the incompetence of the American healthcare system.
I notice this is the second topic this week in the P&OC section that comes across as a derogatory diatribe against Canada, if you want to trash Canada why not post in the Canada section?
Because American liberals are always stating how great Canada's HC system is . The fact is it sucks.
Because American liberals are always stating how great Canada's HC system is . The fact is it sucks.
Perhaps it would be prudent to admit that there is no "Silver Bullet" when it comes to having a decent Healthcare System?
Were Canada's or anyone else's system perfect, there would be no debate. We would have adopted it long ago. We all would have agreed and implemented it.
Canadian and European systems obviously have faults, many faults. So does ours.
The Canadians seem to like it, warts and all. So be it.
Perhaps it would be prudent to admit that there is no "Silver Bullet" when it comes to having a decent Healthcare System?
Were Canada's or anyone else's system perfect, there would be no debate. We would have adopted it long ago. We all would have agreed and implemented it.
Canadian and European systems obviously have faults, many faults. So does ours.
The Canadians seem to like it, warts and all. So be it.
There is no Silver Bullet.
Of course there is but it would never fly with the liberals.
How about we encourage people to make their own decisions about their health care? Are we not responsible human being who are capable of making that decision?
You want to shoot yourself up with gasoline, go right ahead but don't expect anybody to save you for that stupidity. If the parents decide that their children don't need health insurance, fine, pay up when they get sick. Oh, you can't afford? Why did you have children when you can't afford to raise them properly?
But we don't want any real solution and other people should always pay for my problems, needs and wants, right?
For ten years I lived so close to the border I could step on my front porch and look over at Canada. I knew Canadians, they spent lots of time on our side of border, I spent a lot on their side. Never did I feel people on either side of the border saw each other as "foreign". Obviously everyone is aware of them being separate nations but beyond that it was just a border, and one that means a lot less then most borders in the world. Now I see your from Toronto and there are a lot of people from that city who really have chips on their shoulder toward the US. (according to CD) Maybe its just an unfriendly city I don't know. (we have unfriendly cities too of course) Anyhow your chip is huge, I wonder how you carry it around. I wonder what makes someone dislike us to the extent you seem to dislike us. Ever been down here? Come down here and visit and see what we are really about. What I do know from my real life experience with Canadians is that people like you do not speak for most Canadians, I have known enough REAL Canadians from the real world that are not like you. I also meet them here in the southern USA when they come down here for vacation. They are always nice, always social and seem to not have that "chip" we often see here in city data land from the residents of Toronto. If I am wrong about Toronto I am sorry, but I cant help but notice that most angry Canadian posters hail from that place. Oh and I was not insulting your healthcare by the way, just pointing out that both the US and Canada did not do well in that ranking. If you don't like that ranking then work to change and improve the system. My point was that the two first world nations of North America should do better than that, no insult intended. Also I want to make clear that I like Canada, its a great country with great people.
A good post and although it is technically a foreign country I think of myself more as a visitor than a foreigner when I visit the US. I am not as close to the border as you, I need to drive about 45 kilometers before I catch a glimpse of the Sweetgrass Hills. Where I live we have many Brits because they train here and I do not think of either them or Americans as foreigners either. Some of the American concepts are foreign to me though. One of them is the hatred of single payer health care. No matter where I live, where I work or if I work or where I travel within this country I am covered by health care. Most cases if you need it you get it. The waits are mostly due to lack of personal which is partly I guess the lower rates they are paid but mostly due to lack of seats in the universities and technical schools for producing medically trained people to operate our labs and hospitals.
I for one would like our system to improve but I would be opposed to it converting to a system similar to that in the USA. Both the federal government and the provincial governments are monitoring wait times and have set goals and policies to see them reduced. Many of them have been significantly reduced from a decade or so. Our governments are not satisfied with the systems as they now stand for the same reason that the population is, that being it is neither perfect nor the best in the world. One difference between our two countries is Americans seem to believe that they are the best in the world no matter what the metrics claim whereas we do not however when the rating show that we are or in hockey we will gladly crow about it.
I find most Americans I run into either in Canada or in the States much nicer than lots of those I encounter on CD as well. Perhaps nasty people come to forums or that a person finds it easier to be nasty on line compared to in person or a combination of both.
Of course there is but it would never fly with the liberals.
How about we encourage people to make their own decisions about their health care? Are we not responsible human being who are capable of making that decision?
You want to shoot yourself up with gasoline, go right ahead but don't expect anybody to save you for that stupidity. If the parents decide that their children don't need health insurance, fine, pay up when they get sick. Oh, you can't afford? Why did you have children when you can't afford to raise them properly?
But we don't want any real solution and other people should always pay for my problems, needs and wants, right?
Yes cause there has never ever been a person who lost their job or their business has failed through no fault of their own.
Canadians have many times over shown their support for the single payer health care system. Tommy Douglas is considered one of the if not the greatest Canadian of all time for bringing it to us. But you claim that we as a people do not have that right to make a collective decision that lifeexplorer thinks that we must accept his view of everyone for themselves. We as a people have made our choice. We also have government run fire departments, police departments, roads, national and provincial parks, armed forces, sidewalks, labelling of products, fire and building codes and pension plans. Why do you think that the vast majority of the population should not be able to exercise their choice of public health care? Or public schooling? Most of us are not perfect people like yourself who will never need the help from a government or other people.
My niece got a brain virus when we was days old and is mentally and physically handicapped and will never be able to look after herself. Her parents would never had been able to afford the medical and social costs for her on their own. Under your view they would have had to have health insurance that would cover that, have the funds to pay the deductibles and never been able to change insurance companies and still would not have had the ability to give her the education and social services that she has obtained. It would be a sad world if we had to let people like her just die or not allow anyone who is not a multi millionaire to have children. They never planned for this to happen. My brother has worked his whole life, has served in the forces and is university educated but according to you he should be on his own and that it is his fault. What a terrible world you want for your fellow humans.
Yes cause there has never ever been a person who lost their job or their business has failed through no fault of their own.
That's what insurance is for, to assist when unpredictable happens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander
Canadians have many times over shown their support for the single payer health care system. Tommy Douglas is considered one of the if not the greatest Canadian of all time for bringing it to us. But you claim that we as a people do not have that right to make a collective decision that lifeexplorer thinks that we must accept his view of everyone for themselves. We as a people have made our choice. We also have government run fire departments, police departments, roads, national and provincial parks, armed forces, sidewalks, labelling of products, fire and building codes and pension plans. Why do you think that the vast majority of the population should not be able to exercise their choice of public health care? Or public schooling? Most of us are not perfect people like yourself who will never need the help from a government or other people.
Again, are we not responsible human being capable of making decisions for yourselves?
Military, fire departments, police departments are government functions but public schooling is not. Please do not mix those. How your children should be raised is YOUR responsibility not the taxpayers or the government's. Why do you think it's OK for others to pay to raise YOUR children?
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander
My niece got a brain virus when we was days old and is mentally and physically handicapped and will never be able to look after herself. Her parents would never had been able to afford the medical and social costs for her on their own. Under your view they would have had to have health insurance that would cover that, have the funds to pay the deductibles and never been able to change insurance companies and still would not have had the ability to give her the education and social services that she has obtained. It would be a sad world if we had to let people like her just die or not allow anyone who is not a multi millionaire to have children. They never planned for this to happen. My brother has worked his whole life, has served in the forces and is university educated but according to you he should be on his own and that it is his fault. What a terrible world you want for your fellow humans.
That's what insurance is for, to assist when unpredictable happens.
That's what insurance is for, to assist when unpredictable happens.
Again, are we not responsible human being capable of making decisions for yourselves?
Military, fire departments, police departments are government functions but public schooling is not. Please do not mix those. How your children should be raised is YOUR responsibility not the taxpayers or the government's. Why do you think it's OK for others to pay to raise YOUR children?
That's what insurance is for, to assist when unpredictable happens.
I have paid for the education of other people's children but do not have children. And when the insurance refuses to pay or you cannot afford the deductibles what happens to the child, a pillow over her head or left in a park as one could not hand her over to the government as that would be so unfair to the taxpayers according to you. It is OK for others to share in the common cost of education because believe it or not we all benefit. And I do not have children, nor do my tenants have children in school I am paying at four different houses for schools and have no problem doing so, I went to school, my parents went to school, my nephews and nieces went to school and their children have started school too. I choice not to live in a early Victorian society with the wealth rich beyond belief and children running the streets uneducated or put to work in sweat shops.
Are we not responsible societies that can make decisions for that society. We choose public health care. If you lived in Canada you could choose to pay your own way but your taxes would include the health care and the roads and parks and national gallery etc.
I would be surprised if a private insurance company would have continued to provide the level of care that my brother and his wife received and do receive for their child for almost twenty years. My brother also changed jobs several times during that period in order to better himself and moved to an area with better services, a less rural area for their daughter. Would his insurance have been able to follow him? With the ACC no other insurance company would have had to accept his family under your system and why could not the insurance company just drop him after a bit?
That you prefer every man for themselves rather than a caring society is of course your choice. But perhaps not a choice that you are able to impose on all others, especially in other countries and we do not have to accept your choice to what we can or cannot have as shared responsibilities and rights and privileges.
You made a number of good points in your post above.
I would sum up the usual objections about health care in Canada , by some Americans as ..
To hell with you, I'm all right.
Until the shtf and then it's "help me !! ".
I much prefer the Canadian model, it is fair and universal.
Jim B.
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