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Old 03-15-2009, 06:08 PM
 
Location: In The Outland
6,023 posts, read 12,913,139 times
Reputation: 3535

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I say just The whole world is in a tizzy and I just want to go fishing, eat well and watch a few good old movies. Any one who wants to limit in any way my right to own weapons and use them to defend my rights under the constitution would be wise to stay the futz out of my neck of the woods. My neck of the woods includes all of the upper Columbia river basin within the boundaries of The U.S.A.
[MOD CUT/soliciting]

Last edited by Ibginnie; 03-16-2009 at 07:20 AM..
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Old 03-15-2009, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,925 posts, read 13,819,338 times
Reputation: 3446
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
Who are you going to sell your products to? The "buy American" people wouldn't be using your services, you'd be emigrating to another "country" and be subject to their tax structure and immigration regulations. Remember, you have relinquished all relations with the USA.
I gather you've never heard of treaties or trade agreements... or noticed that Montana sits astride THE major northern-tier east-west commercial corridor for both rail and highway shipments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
The government of Montana would have to increase it's "governance" to take care of all things your population will require: education, medical, colleges, any infrastructure, your own constitution, laws, religious differences, etc.
Ya know, if Montana's taxes that are presently paid to the feds stayed home in Montana, Montana probably wouldn't NEED any federal subsidies. Remember every dollar that goes to Washington comes back reduced to about 60 cents, after overhead and waste, and it ALL comes out of OUR pockets one way or another. Federal money doesn't just magically appear from the air.
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Old 03-15-2009, 06:36 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,925 posts, read 13,819,338 times
Reputation: 3446
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
It will be quaint to have a third world country up on our Northern border. The first thing we should do is build a fence to stop illegals from sneaking out of The People's Republic of Montana.
Thankfully, that fence will also prevent illegals from sneaking into Montana from Los Estados Mexicano del Norte.
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Old 03-15-2009, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,925 posts, read 13,819,338 times
Reputation: 3446
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
Why? where in the constitution does it say that you have the right to be a homosexual? Please quote the passage if you can...
Actually, that would be under freedom of religion, which also means freedom FROM religion, including yours (and mine, if I had one).

It falls under freedom of speech too, albeit less directly. Freedom of speech means tolerating ugly speech as well as speech you agree with.

It falls under freedom of assembly -- which means anyone with anyone else, not just organizations you approve of.

Freedom means tolerating people you don't like -- so long as they don't swing their fist into your nose. At that point, your tolerance rightfully ends. Without that freedom, in the future YOU may be the minority that is neither liked nor tolerated (much as conservatives and whites are becoming the hated minority in California!)

Contrary to an increasingly popular misconception, the Constitution is NOT a list of things that are permitted to the citizens. It is a list of the very narrow things that the government is allowed (not required) to do or restrict. Nowhere does it say that the government has the right to restrict someone's sexual orientation.

And you might be amazed how many people YOU know are gay (not to mention how many NFL players are, but that's another subject), but since they don't make a big deal about it, who cares? As the MT forum thread on racism discusses, it doesn't matter if someone is black, white, green, plaid, or Martian -- and we'll add to that, straight or gay -- so long as they don't shove it into other folks' faces. (Yes, it is equally possible to shove "being straight" into someone else's face, just like it's possible to shove "being white" or "being black" into someone else's face.)

So... in the true spirit of Montana, it doesn't matter if someone is gay or straight, any more than it matters if they're a cowboy or an indian. It only matters that they uphold every citizen's rights, and don't infringe on anyone else's rights.
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Old 03-15-2009, 06:55 PM
 
Location: Montana
1,219 posts, read 2,982,956 times
Reputation: 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reziac View Post
Thankfully, that fence will also prevent illegals from sneaking into Montana from Los Estados Mexicano del Norte.
The nice thing about being a pilot is not having to worry about fences... (unless the police in the area you want to check out use missiles!)

Right now it's more like eastern california here than it is north mexico!! Although the freight companies are doing well with people moving out. One of the local outfits I know is booked until september.

As for succession, I'll keep my opinion private. Loose lips have messed up our economy, taken away more of our freedom and brought every exploitation driven entrepreneur to come and try to figure out a way to scam and take advantage of Montanans then any other medium.

Last edited by Timberwolf232; 03-15-2009 at 07:57 PM..
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Old 03-15-2009, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Dangling from a mooses antlers
7,305 posts, read 13,273,735 times
Reputation: 6189
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
You seem to think the latte crowd is even going to notice if Montana leave the Union. They won't. Nobody more that two states away really cares. Get over it. Montana isn't that important.
Neither is the majority of the East Coast. They produce few resources and are only a drag on the rest of the economy.
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Old 03-15-2009, 08:06 PM
 
Location: Montana
1,219 posts, read 2,982,956 times
Reputation: 687
Default tsk tsk tsk

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
You seem to think the latte crowd is even going to notice if Montana leave the Union. They won't. Nobody more that two states away really cares. Get over it. Montana isn't that important.
And the people that do the work, guard you while you sleep, build your infrastructure, rescue you in emergencies, fight for your right to say what you want, and clean up your messes actually care about what the "latte" crowd thinks.. The "latte" crowd can kiss my Montanan A**.

It's not just in Montana that people are fed up, it's everywhere.
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Old 03-15-2009, 08:07 PM
 
11,943 posts, read 13,822,458 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberwolf232 View Post
The nice thing about being a pilot is not having to worry about fences... (unless the police in the area you want to check out use missiles!)

Right now it's more like eastern california here than it is north mexico!! Although the freight companies are doing well with people moving out. One of the local outfits I know is booked until september.

As for succession, I'll keep my opinion private. Loose lips have messed up our economy, taken away more of our freedom and brought every exploition driven entrepaneur to come and try to figure out a way to scam and take advantage of montanans then any other medium.
Cautionary tales~
I grew up rural in a place no one ever suspected was rural-- suffolk county long island NY. They've all but destroyed it with urban sprawl, the native scattered far and wide. Beware the developers making promises of utopia, and politicians swearing zero taxes for them means jobs will be coming. Your utopia is your big sky country. The jobs will be below living wage, and vacant lots abound the moment the free lunch crowd is lured away by another municipality. The deals coincide with the expiration date of said elected official who makes himself out to be a hero. 2 brats playing mommy off of daddy-- school them early, it pays!

I've traveled all over our country, including AK. Preserving your paradise really ought to be included in your math one way or another, but that's your job if you take it seriously. As for mass exodus from urban centers; most of those people were outsiders looking for a living. They have a nomadic bent.

Considering they embraced living there under those terms, is it not better for all parties concerned to see that preserving those urban settings is a much better investment than relocating to montana? Consider the fact that per capita, city folks get taxed more, and the funds don't come back to them in proper ratio. That means excessive AK pork has been inadvertantly shooting itself in the foot.

The funds have always been tilted more toward rural folks compensating for lack of infrastructure or solid economic development. Rural crying poor getting the pork, and at the same time, blaming 'blue' everything for being against capitalism. Hmmm sounds lots like parents putting kids through college only to get spit in the face, but republicans doing it??? R loses all credibility with ever retarded argument out of coulter & limbergers mouths. Blue never begrudged rural for the tilt. Not ever, and not even when they needed it more. AK take a good hard look at rust belt. AK needed help more than they did???

Upstate NY (R) moaned about subsidy keeping the price of dairy low for everyone. (R) gov Pataki yanked it at considerable savings to (D) down state. Upstate dairy went belly up to the detriment of all upstaters AND downstaters. A Va co. & Pa co. gang banged Walmart style undercut prices long enough to choke them off the shelf, then back to $5 lb butter $4 gallon milk which isn't compatible with WIC.

All sides of poli spectrum- reconsider where your bread and butter comes from before getting caught up in forcing purist ideology. Gov't is supposed to be acting on what's best for the whole family, not the few favored pets. Defunct upstate dairy is still blaming everyone else, but their own brand of entitlement attitude is responsible for their fate. They allowed themselves to believe they didn't have a good thing going that benefited all equally. Only those ready to exploit their ignorance, and divide brothers against each other, win.
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Old 03-15-2009, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Montana
1,219 posts, read 2,982,956 times
Reputation: 687
Part of the problem in my opinion is that people that actually do the work, (IE: Military, first responders, utilities, etc..) don't have the time to get into the politics most of the time. From experience I know what it's like to be exhausted from your day job, and It's tough to follow politics when you are busy dealing with life or death, technical, or other complex situations on a daily basis. I know lots of other people feel the same way.

Money should never have anything to do with a persons appointment into an elected position, but it does, and that is a huge part of the problem. There are plenty of thoughtful, caring, considerate people in this country.. Sad that more of them are not elected, or can even get to where they would be considered for candidacy because of financial interests.
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Old 03-15-2009, 09:55 PM
 
Location: Northglenn, Colorado
3,689 posts, read 9,912,193 times
Reputation: 967
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
Inalienable rights. The boundary issue is clearly on the side of gays getting harassed and unwanted interference. Hetero couples don't belong in any bedroom but their own, and neither does the church unless they've been invited. End of discussion. Nobody owns the patent on god, separation of church and state isn't optional. Especially when religious extremism wants to force it. They're willing to tear republican party to shreds (king solomon parable here) to get what they want. These are not true christians if only people would check the good book for themselves.

It doesn't matter what party or state you're in. You either support the constitution or not. The red rhetoric feeding the masses paranoia is the death throes of GOP held hostage by religous interference. We've got a better chance of minding that constitution with Obama as constitutional law professor than we ever did with Bush or McCain. Whatever anyone wants to call themselves, that's the difference between being American (abiding the constitution), or not (doing whatever you want).

2nd amendment rights has my support, until extremists, criminal element, or children are thinking they're entitled to military scale weaponry. 2nd amendment would be better protected if NRA were policing their own. If it were up to me they'd be writing the legislation themselves that would target criminals/ extremists to debunk any valid argument left. Montana pointing it's guns at percieved enemy liberals (who are your brothers in case you forgot) in word or deed isn't my idea of responsible gun ownership or the true spirit of right to bear arms.

Your very behavior is what moderates who otherwise would have supported you see. Paranoia used as a tool to create artificial affinity will have an unpleasant outcome that threatens everyones right to bear arms. Yes sir, this includes MY right to bear arms. Still want to believe you're talking to liberally liberal kumbaya? You're shooting yourselves in the foot and the so-called leadership putting crap in your ear trying to get your support at any price will mean the end of legitimacy because immaturity and lack of discernment is what's being displayed.

NVplumber-- I hear everything you're saying and agree, but rural people do have a habit of doing it to themselves. Those birkenstock shoes wouldn't be in the town council if the locals weren't in the habit of grousing themselves about greener grass. It takes two to tango. Whatever city folks have got came at a huge sacrafice not just in pooled money to build infrastructure, but cooperation in a system that restricts freedoms. That's the nature of compensating for people stacked upon each other like sardines- the laws get more complicated. Westerners, southerners, rural folks in general-- be very very clear what it is you're complaining about to gov't, and whatever local legislation solution you're saying yes to, be certain of the true price not just in terms of $$$.

I think that subject is a whole other thread, though.
you go on this tirade about inalienable rights, then start talking restrictions on our second ammendment..... bit contradictory are we?

if you look at the supporting documents about our second amendment use the words

"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man gainst his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American..."
---Tenche Coxe, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788

basically saying that any weapon a standard military soldier has access to, the people have access to.

Look, government has its hands where it should not be... personal relationships. This goes for hetero marriage or homosexual relationships.

And for your separation of church and state you speak of. Where is that in our constitution, hell where is it in any of our founding documents? You will only find a reference of that within the writings of Thomas Jefferson to some baptists. There is no government separation of church and state, our founders within our founding documents made mention of a creator, that is not a seperation of church and state is it?
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