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Old 03-16-2009, 01:55 PM
 
Location: PA
5,562 posts, read 5,334,954 times
Reputation: 1956

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Its funny how we talk about gun rights, when it is in fact a individual right in the constitution not a government right. I'll support montana on this one for actually following the constitutional aspect of this and wish the federal government would follow the constitution for once. You know some in the army actually understand and follow the constitution they dont have to worry about votes.
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Old 03-16-2009, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Montana
1,219 posts, read 2,981,860 times
Reputation: 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
Then why did you wait until a black man was voted into office to start your whining? Didn't see you posting this during the BushCo administration.
I just saw the thread. I've been concerned about this stuff for years! You talk like you want people to be racists. As far as you know I could be a minority myself.

Last edited by Timberwolf232; 03-16-2009 at 02:37 PM..
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Old 03-16-2009, 02:11 PM
 
Location: NW MT
1,436 posts, read 3,106,848 times
Reputation: 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
Seriously, knock yourselves out, but the US would ensure you fail by providing no support whatsoever.
Aside from the yuppie transplants who can't function without someone governing their every move, what makes you think Montanans NEED liberal yuppie Gov support and would die without it ?
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Old 03-16-2009, 02:12 PM
 
Location: The Woods
17,896 posts, read 24,335,551 times
Reputation: 10668
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
Then why did you wait until a black man was voted into office to start your whining? Didn't see you posting this during the BushCo administration.
Actually MT was threatening to secede while Bush was in office, if the SCOTUS didn't uphold the Second Amendment in the DC case...
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Old 03-16-2009, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Montana
1,219 posts, read 2,981,860 times
Reputation: 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan_K View Post
Aside from the yuppie transplants who can't function without someone governing their every move, what makes you think Montanans NEED liberal yuppie Gov support and would die without it ?
No doubt... I wish people would just leave the place (Montana) the hell alone instead of trying to turn it into another Boulder or Berkeley.
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Old 03-16-2009, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,915 posts, read 7,631,137 times
Reputation: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberwolf232 View Post
No doubt... I wish people would just leave the place (Montana) the hell alone instead of trying to turn it into another Boulder or Berkeley.
Probably a function of all those Montanans holding their hands out for tourism dollars.
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Old 03-16-2009, 02:30 PM
 
Location: NW MT
1,436 posts, read 3,106,848 times
Reputation: 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
Probably a function of all those Montanans holding their hands out for tourism dollars.
No... those are the yuppie transplants !!!!
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Old 03-16-2009, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Earth
24,629 posts, read 26,607,614 times
Reputation: 11372
Who sells them land?
I guess not everyone in MT thinks like you do.
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Old 03-16-2009, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Montana
1,219 posts, read 2,981,860 times
Reputation: 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
Agreed, but on the voter end of your statement I think it's worse than just the work load of 95% of the country. Civilization encourages people to be specialists, which leaves 100% of us at a disadvantage leaning on an 'expert' too hard. Bogus intelligence reports for Iraq ring a bell? We wouldn't be divided about war if not for lies predicated upon lies- that's not informed consent where everyone knows the stakes and commits themselves thick and thin together.

The bigger the civilization, the more convoluted, the more charlatans can trojan horse themselves into 'expert' status. F/T job as paid for testimony in courthouses is perfect illustration. Talking heads purveying themselves as journalists. Non repub on a repub ticket, non dem on a dem ticket. Truth in advertisement is woefully absent. Consumers, taxpayers, and voters are frustrated beyond belief in all parties- another unanimous vote. Trying to discern the truth is a mind bending trip down the rabbit hole. Lean on the experts to cave down there or do what most do- live in your own apathetic bubble. Angry or depressed isn't the only choice we've got.

The money end of your statement- DC is a cesspool and has been for over a century. The only way I can see to fix it is to reform lobbyist & campaign systems to level the playing field. Let honest people called to public service keep their eyes in the boat without having to run the gauntlet of a snake pit. Mr Smith needs a fighting chance and We the People have to insist it through petition. Rotten apples have had a carefree existence. A reliable career track that bee lines to DC, madison ave, wall street.

As things are, 2 parties are vying for the lions share of warchest, whomever has the biggest pile & the most artful congenital liars for campaign mgmt wins. This has fed a thriving population of congenital liars. Air and light was put on finance and actuaries on wall street. How about the rest? The warchest must be out of their hands. The smear campaigns must go. Statesmanship must be restored.

Keeping status quo... voter apathy or voter anger. Repubs are 3 parties. Dems are 3 parties. Drop your swords, forge them into plowshares and build your own party. This is the only productive method within the framework of constitution I can see for we the people to assert control of our own government in orderly fashion. The repubs need to BE repub, not the catch all of disparate groups. Same for dems. No one is happy. We really do need change, but no one seems to know how or into what.

There's a grand illusion sold that only those in the NRA support the 2nd amendment. Extreme right wing means to keep that voting block, even if it means all other issues come last, even if they're shooting themselves in the foot. Only extreme left wing in certain % squarely oppose. The rest of us become a battleground and the heaviest issues get neglected as a result. This cannot continue on.

I test out as a centrist and have no party of my own. I'd be pleased as punch if I could attend my own primary instead of bouncing between 2 parties I know full well I never belonged. I'm not interested in party crashing. The nasty power grabs by neo cons and religious right corrupting parties away from their actual foundations make me lose all respect. They aren't trustworthy as evidenced by their own behaviors. Look where all 4 are at now over it. Paleo's, neos, religious, and independence. Truth in advertisement. Let everyone have their own parties. We cannot afford lies.

Alternative idea is to forget any party labels whatsoever. Vote line item by line item on the issues themselves, and let the best candidate aggregate vote win. Another option is to refuse candidates the right to have any agenda concerning constitutional issues- that's best left in the hands of judiciary rule of supreme court. It's their job to protect the constitution. This would force people to vote on solutions and less on superficial charisma or hatfield/mccoy drama. Undecided voters taking that sort of test online hosted by a non partisan source could be a cost effective method. Anyone with better ideas, you have my ear. Our world is so much more complex than the framers had ever imagined, and it takes more work now than it ever did before to stay between the lines of what should remain constant- OUR constitution.
Great post. It's nice to see some actual rational thought on here. Thanks for that.
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Old 03-16-2009, 04:46 PM
 
181 posts, read 90,756 times
Reputation: 38
woop dee doo,, so let montana leave, they are a red state anyaway
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