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Old 03-18-2009, 11:29 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
16,821 posts, read 13,631,348 times
Reputation: 15567

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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
The british marching to Lexington and Concord were on a mission to confiscate arms. The british attempted to restrict the ownership and carrying of arms in the colonies. That set off the actual revolution...and this isn't just about guns in Montana but also about the over-expansion of federal control over many other issues to, ranging from wildlife management to environmental issues to taxation to Real ID Act to NAIS to the feds' land grabs...

And there are plenty of landlocked countries doing just fine...Switzerland, Austria...
The British troops fireing upon the militia formed up on the common green at Concord was the first strike of the match. It galvanized the Colonists to action and hardened their resolve to fight. If a state(like Montana) actually does secede on Constitutional issues the Feds WILL use force to bring them into line. The correlation is clear. It will take a use of military force by the government to make it happen. The type of use so advocated and gleefully supported by ol, richurch. Keep striking that match and sooner or later it's gonna light. It may not even take an actual secession to make it happen. It could be something on a much smaller scale. Another Waco, or Ruby Ridge, or another bogus law enforcement shooting in a major city. Who knows. It has historically taken quite a big slap in the face to get Americans that fighting mad. But if pushed that far it CAN happen. keep taxing us to death to fund pet social programs, keep pushing the Federal government deeper into our lives, keep making laws that hack away at the Constitution, yep, keep shaking that bottle of nitro and hope it doesn't take a notion to just pop.
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Old 03-18-2009, 11:39 AM
 
11,943 posts, read 13,822,458 times
Reputation: 2772
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdavid93225 View Post
I disagree. Freedom from government sponsored or government established religion is in the First Amendment. Freedom of religion is in there also, meaning the government (Congress) can not make a law prohibiting the right of citizens to exercise their religion. One's right to practice their religion ceases to exist only when it infringes upon the rights of another person. Persecution of those whose beliefs differ from your own, for instance, is not your right.

If I choose to pray openly on a street corner, I have that right. If you don't like my public display of religion, that's too bad. You have the right to look away. If I tell you that you must do likewise, I've overstepped my right.

The same could be said of someone's (legally protected) lifestyle choices. I don't have to like thier lifestyle choices, but I also don't have the right to tell someone what lifestyle they must lead. Likewise, they don't have the right to tell me I must accept their lifestyle choices. This is equally true of gay rights issues and 2nd Amendment issues, among others.

The Constitution does not provide for freedom from offense. The choices made by others will at times offend you. That is a fact of life. It doesn't matter if it's a lifestyle choice, or a fashion choice. If you're offended, you have the right to remove yourself from the situation.

This is what I see those in Montana doing. They are offended that there is a real possibility that they may be forced, by the federal government, to accept a change in their lifestyle choices, contrary to their understanding of the 2nd Amendment. They don't want that change to affect them, so they want to leave. Sounds simple enough.
My briefest answer is this-- you cannot have a legal fence and think it's all one way protection. It's a 2 way street. You can choose to believe in a christian empire of nations AND your fence, but that is not secular reality. The kingdom of god is another realm. The power of judgement and punishment in the realm of Judeo christian religious law is reserved for god, and god alone. That Islamic clerics would issue fatwahs... does the entire globe not have a serious problem with that mentality? Lets not be hypocrites. We're stronger when we tell the truth and live it out on our own dime.
I support your right to pray anywhere you like, but not use it for the purpose of disrupting the business at hand. I also ask you not to be a christia cloud who pulled the equivalent of parading an effigy of a black man on a noose in a funeral procession in Alabama. The frustration levels of gays at being persecuted by a group trying to control them was at dangerous levels, and christia cloud instigating as she did... she's very fortunate to be spared her life but I suspect her conduct and 15 min of fame won't bode well in the long term.

JimJ- I'm catholic. It cannot be separated from the marrow of my bones. I ex communicated myself and commited myself to practicing my faith solitary. If I'm not permitted to identify myself as catholic, whatever you care to label me is irrelevant to my actual faith & practices. It's semantics. I walk like a duck, talk like a duck, I'm catholic.

I have no middle men interfering in my relationship with my maker. If you are meaning to understand why I've walked this path, I suggest you inquire about the difference between old and new testament, and why Jesus, born a Jew, would take serious issue with how judaic law was being misinterpreted and enforced in a perversion of gods will. Fixated on the minutae grasping at letters of law, christians all too often cannot see the forrest for the trees. The most simplistic answer for the least scholarly of my brothers & sisters in christendom-- "What would Jesus do?" If you can ask yourself this regarding every issue, you'd be walking in his example.
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Quote:
My enemy is not my fellow citizens. My enemy is lies.
Every time I find a conservative who is an enemy of lies, I find my America.
Every time I find a liberal who is an enemy of lies, I find my America.
I do not care what their religion is, what generation, what color state or skin. This for me is the only 'for me or against me' affinity argument worthy of enlistment.
Let my America stand on truth. ~Harborlady
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Old 03-18-2009, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,915 posts, read 7,634,204 times
Reputation: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Gee - over 20 states LEGISLATURES passing similar resolutions - yet the God of the Boards - Mr. Knowitall - Richurch KNOWS the legislature won't do anything!

Oh yeah - I forgot. Richurch runs the Government. He said so
Please list the states that have passed secession legislation in the last 5 years. Link to the legislation.

{This will be a long wait}
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Old 03-18-2009, 12:49 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
16,821 posts, read 13,631,348 times
Reputation: 15567
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
Please list the states that have passed secession legislation in the last 5 years. Link to the legislation.

{This will be a long wait}
Montana is the only state I have heard of passing legislation to actually secede if the 2nd is nullified, but quite a few(my home state included) have passed legislation protecting the right to bear arms on a state level. "Shall issue" CCW regs are representitive of such laws but there are other examples of individual states protecting the right to bear arms. And no, I am not going to provide stupid links to prove the obvious. . Federal legislation to nullify the 2nd amendment will be met with stiff resistance at state and local levels. You can bank on that. Montana just went the extra mile. It's a good start. I hope to see more states follow suit. It could happen pretty easy. Larger things have started on a smaller scale. Sorry to pop your bubble but DC is NOT representitave of the majority of the country on the gun rights issue, and neither are you. This is becoming more and more obvious every day. There are only a very few states that have truly repressive gun laws. Massachusetes, California, your precious DC (NOT a state) hmmm, other than cities in certain states I seem to be lost to think of any others. More states have pro 2nd ammendment stances than don't. If Montana needs help, I'm thinking folks like you are going to feel rather...isolated. I'm thinking that staying in good ol' DC would be prudent for one with views such as yours. You might be ok in CA but you would have to pass through a lot of "hostile territory" to get there. LMAO, something to think about.
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Old 03-18-2009, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
5,217 posts, read 4,619,335 times
Reputation: 908
I haven't read through this entire thread..

But the entire idea is just riduclous. Montana seperating from the U.S would never happen.. You'd find that Montana couldn't sustain itself as a stand alone nation.

And.. my mom lives in Montana.. as does my entire maternal side of my family. If any such thing was an actual real possibility and remotely possible I'd know about it..

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Old 03-18-2009, 01:12 PM
 
Location: NW MT
1,436 posts, read 3,108,017 times
Reputation: 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
No it was not! It was created to provide houses,healthcare and food to everyone without regard to what they produce or if they produce, didn't you know that?
And that's the EXACT mentality that most of the US has today !!! Money for nothing... and your chicks for free ! Everyone has their hand out anymore.

If MT (or any other state for that matter) ever did decide to secede to preserve liberty and principals this country was founded on, count me in... I will fight to the death for it, just as our forefathers did and many after them... As the stupid ass yuppies look at me like I'm some kind of crazed nut job.

That's right... I'll fight today to give you the rights you deserve so you can turn around and try to give them away tomorrow... but your not giving my rights away today ! It took guns, guts and brains to create this country and it will take 100x that from those who care to keep those who don't from giving what liberties are left away !
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Old 03-18-2009, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,915 posts, read 7,634,204 times
Reputation: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
Montana is the only state I have heard of passing legislation to actually secede if the 2nd is nullified, but quite a few(my home state included) have passed legislation protecting the right to bear arms on a state level. "Shall issue" CCW regs are representitive of such laws but there are other examples of individual states protecting the right to bear arms. And no, I am not going to provide stupid links to prove the obvious. . Federal legislation to nullify the 2nd amendment will be met with stiff resistance at state and local levels. You can bank on that. Montana just went the extra mile. It's a good start. I hope to see more states follow suit. It could happen pretty easy. Larger things have started on a smaller scale. Sorry to pop your bubble but DC is NOT representitave of the majority of the country on the gun rights issue, and neither are you. This is becoming more and more obvious every day. There are only a very few states that have truly repressive gun laws. Massachusetes, California, your precious DC (NOT a state) hmmm, other than cities in certain states I seem to be lost to think of any others. More states have pro 2nd ammendment stances than don't. If Montana needs help, I'm thinking folks like you are going to feel rather...isolated. I'm thinking that staying in good ol' DC would be prudent for one with views such as yours. You might be ok in CA but you would have to pass through a lot of "hostile territory" to get there. LMAO, something to think about.
Montana passed no such legislation. It was one politician shooting off his big mouth looking for face time on TV.
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Old 03-18-2009, 01:45 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
16,821 posts, read 13,631,348 times
Reputation: 15567
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
Montana passed no such legislation. It was one politician shooting off his big mouth looking for face time on TV.
Fair enough, even taking that into account, the rest of my post still rings true. There are far more states than not that have passed legislation to uphold the 2nd ammendment than not. Thats a plain fact and not disputable. .
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Old 03-18-2009, 01:51 PM
 
Location: NW MT
1,436 posts, read 3,108,017 times
Reputation: 549
Quote:
Originally Posted by TristansMommy View Post
But the entire idea is just riduclous. Montana seperating from the U.S would never happen.. You'd find that Montana couldn't sustain itself as a stand alone nation.

And.. my mom lives in Montana.. as does my entire maternal side of my family. If any such thing was an actual real possibility and remotely possible I'd know about it..

Ridiculous really ???? No, what's ridiculous is that there are people in this country that are willing to just give up rights and would rather be be ruled then have the liberty that generations fought and died for. Nothing more ridiculous than that in my book !

Others think that MT would not be self sustaining too. BUT, I think what is not being taken into consideration is that MILLIONS upon MILLIONS would try getting into MT if such a thing happened, and once it did I also think you'd see a few more States get involved as well... maybe more than just a few too !

There is a BIG part of this country that would give anything to "start over". Self sustaining... I don't think that would be much of an issue... just a day in the life of the bigger picture.
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Old 03-18-2009, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,915 posts, read 7,634,204 times
Reputation: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by NVplumber View Post
Fair enough, even taking that into account, the rest of my post still rings true. There are far more states than not that have passed legislation to uphold the 2nd ammendment than not. Thats a plain fact and not disputable. .
Let's not try to shift the question.
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