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Old 03-20-2009, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn
40,051 posts, read 32,474,597 times
Reputation: 10566

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reziac View Post
I have a better idea. Let's KICK OUT the states whose misguided policies are weakening the union!!
If you think some of these "secessionists" are loud, can you imagine the screaming and yelling if they thought they weren't even going to get the chance...because everyone else was going to kick them out? Absolutely hilarious! I'd love to see this happen.
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Old 03-20-2009, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,915 posts, read 7,634,204 times
Reputation: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
They are a state now so the contract applies now. Oh you left out VT which was also independent for some years before becoming a state in the U.S...
Vermont was never an independent entity. It was either part of New Hampshire or part of New York, depending upon what history you believe.
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Old 03-20-2009, 04:31 PM
 
19,215 posts, read 14,209,456 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reziac View Post
I have a better idea. Let's KICK OUT the states whose misguided policies are weakening the union!!
Interesting!

Can a State be fired?

Was there any discussion in the North in 1860 about the possibility of firing the Southern States for being so sassy?
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Old 03-20-2009, 05:43 PM
 
Location: The Woods
17,897 posts, read 24,349,509 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
Vermont was never an independent entity. It was either part of New Hampshire or part of New York, depending upon what history you believe.
Whoa, where'd you study history? Never heard of Ethan Allen and the Green Mountain Boys? Vermonters fought New York, New Hampshire, the British and at some points the Americans during the American Revolution for independence in the late 1770's...and was an independent country until 1791 when it became a state (willingly as most Vermonters favored union, though old Ethan Allen didn't like the idea). Vermont Republic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 03-20-2009, 05:44 PM
 
Location: The Woods
17,897 posts, read 24,349,509 times
Reputation: 10672
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
LOL you really do live in fantasy land don't you.
Do you know why many arms made by Norinco, China's state arms maker, were banned from import in the early 90's?
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Old 03-20-2009, 07:58 PM
 
Location: In a house
5,230 posts, read 7,919,637 times
Reputation: 2575
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
Whoa, where'd you study history? Never heard of Ethan Allen and the Green Mountain Boys? Vermonters fought New York, New Hampshire, the British and at some points the Americans during the American Revolution for independence in the late 1770's...and was an independent country until 1791 when it became a state (willingly as most Vermonters favored union, though old Ethan Allen didn't like the idea). Vermont Republic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You are correct. There was alot of discussion about making it part of NH too.
Although thats entirely different than how the western states came to be.
For awhile a section of northern NH known as Indian Stream was independant too.

But I think that its more realistic for a state that was an independent political entity prior to becoming a part of the union, to make a case for secession because of contract violation than one that was already US territory. When Montana was not a state it was already subject to US law because it was a US territory. Vermont & the other colonies predate the United states by centuries in some cases, there were people living where I sit & type in 1651, Texas Doesn't predate the Union but it was a politically independent country before they signed up.

I realize I'm nit picking but thats what will be done if they tried to secede.
It'd be better I think for them, all the states really, to just ignore the Feds when they go to far. Let Churchie & his coworts live on their own in their cesspool as long as they want, rather than states seceding. It wont take long for them to realize that without us their city is nothing. Montana, no state really NEEDS DC, but DC NEEDS the rest of us.
Least I never noticed any farms or anything else actually useful there. Just a bunch of useless blowhards.
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Old 03-20-2009, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,106 posts, read 37,120,195 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
LOL you really do live in fantasy land don't you.

We all know you do - literally
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Old 03-20-2009, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,925 posts, read 13,819,338 times
Reputation: 3446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin Knocker View Post
I realize I'm nit picking but thats what will be done if they tried to secede.
It'd be better I think for them, all the states really, to just ignore the Feds when they go to far. Let Churchie & his coworts live on their own in their cesspool as long as they want, rather than states seceding. It wont take long for them to realize that without us their city is nothing. Montana, no state really NEEDS DC, but DC NEEDS the rest of us.
Least I never noticed any farms or anything else actually useful there. Just a bunch of useless blowhards.
The few useful and diligent being drowned out by the many and self-seeking..

Ignoring the feds sounds hard, but Alberta does it when Ottawa hands out moronic/expensive mandates, and one has to think that's part of why Alberta's finances are better than the rest of Canada. What's the worst D.C. can do -- withhold federal funding and subsidies? Cool, then we'll withhold all our income tax, and call it even!

Remember, you'd be no worse off if you paid that SAME money to the state rather than to the feds, and it would stay at home and not be diluted by yet another layer of processing (remember everyone who touches your tax money takes a cut, by way of their federal salaries and benefits). And as to that argument about MT sucking more than it gives -- well, if the taxes stayed home and didn't shrink in D.C.'s overhead and waste, I suspect MT would actually come out ahead, and certainly the average person would be better off.
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Old 03-20-2009, 09:31 PM
 
11,943 posts, read 13,822,458 times
Reputation: 2772
tin knock that presumes there isn't a soul left with true intent to serve their country meaningfully in DC. I don't think that's fair. Some do get sent their via constituency with their lunch pails Mr Smith style. They just get beat up unmercifully by corruption & warped media agendas. DC is a complete mind freak of high finance and master manipulator marketing breeding with politicians. I think Ron Paul means well for example. Even if I don't agree with his methodology or plans to solve things, he makes compelling points. K street needs a serious leash.

stephan I think the side benefit of Obama being elected is removing the last illusion minorities could hide behind that the world is somehow against them so no point in trying. The yoke of self defeating thought isn't anything the world can take off them- what's all in your head isn't reality. DC violence- increase taxes directly where X more cops are needed to rid yourselves of disrespectful nonsense. Encourage an intolerence for destructive behavior undermining the potential of youth & those committed to lifting the community. That could work more effectively than pushing for over reaching legislation that tampers with everyones system.

------------------
Quote:
My enemy is not my fellow citizens. My enemy is lies.
Every time I find a conservative who is an enemy of lies, I find my America.
Every time I find a liberal who is an enemy of lies, I find my America.
I do not care what their religion is, what generation, what color state or skin. This for me is the only 'for me or against me' affinity argument worthy of enlistment.
Let my America stand on truth. ~Harborlady
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Old 03-21-2009, 06:20 AM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,915 posts, read 7,634,204 times
Reputation: 954
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
Whoa, where'd you study history? Never heard of Ethan Allen and the Green Mountain Boys? Vermonters fought New York, New Hampshire, the British and at some points the Americans during the American Revolution for independence in the late 1770's...and was an independent country until 1791 when it became a state (willingly as most Vermonters favored union, though old Ethan Allen didn't like the idea). Vermont Republic - [LEFT]Wikipedia[/LEFT], the free encyclopedia
Like I said it depends upon who's history you read. The underlying basis of Vermont's "statehood" depended upon the validity of the New Hampshire Grants, which were ruled illegal. Vermont in the late 1700s was like Afghanistan today. There were multiple overlapping governments and claims. There were at least two governments, both more in name than in fact. The period coincided with the American Revolution so there really wasn't a functioning United States yet to deal with the issue. Ultimately New York acquiesced to Vermont become a state and settle it's claims against those from New Hampshire.

My American History goes a little deeper than the Wikipedia article.
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