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Old 04-11-2009, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
6,298 posts, read 6,913,747 times
Reputation: 1922
Default NRA Free Trial Membership

The NRA is offering a FREE one-year trial membership, open to everyone. Spread the word!

The link is here:

http://www.nrahq.org/nrabonus/accept-membership.asp (broken link)

and it's entirely painless -- takes about 30 seconds.

Show your support for your 2nd Amendment Rights!
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Old 04-11-2009, 11:12 AM
 
19,220 posts, read 5,896,414 times
Reputation: 2337
Quote:
Originally Posted by albion View Post
Will anybody care if Montana leaves the union? What I mean is , would it be missed?

Part of Yellowstone Park.
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Old 04-11-2009, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,913 posts, read 4,767,414 times
Reputation: 914
Is Montana still here? I'm begining to think these guys are all talk.
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Old 04-11-2009, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
6,298 posts, read 6,913,747 times
Reputation: 1922
Next time someone tells you how gun control stops crime, direct them to these stats compiled from FBI data:

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

US States Crime 2004 -2005 Crimes per 100,000 and Ranking

Note that the District of Columbia, with the most stringent gun control in the nation, has TWICE the crime rate of the next worst state, and FIVE TIMES the homicide rate.

Contrast that to the crime rate for Montana, North Dakota, and other well-armed prairie states. Note that this is a per-capita comparison, so don't go saying 'fewer people = less crime' either.

(Tho what Congress is doing to our financial future is a bigger crime than all the rest combined...)
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Old 04-11-2009, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Washington DC
5,913 posts, read 4,767,414 times
Reputation: 914
"Since crime is a sociological phenomenon influenced by a variety of factors, the FBI discourages data users from ranking agencies and using the data as a measurement of law enforcement effectiveness." Federal Bureau of Investigation - Uniform Crime Reprts - A word About UCR Data
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Old 04-11-2009, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
6,298 posts, read 6,913,747 times
Reputation: 1922
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlchurch View Post
"Since crime is a sociological phenomenon influenced by a variety of factors, the FBI discourages data users from ranking agencies and using the data as a measurement of law enforcement effectiveness." Federal Bureau of Investigation - Uniform Crime Reprts - A word About UCR Data
If one reads the entire page, it's clear the meaning of "law enforcement effectiveness" is "how good the local police department is", not "how much crime there is in a given area". The two do not necessarily have anything to do with one another, and I'd hazard a guess that with the advent of state police academies, ALL police departments are now approximately equally competent. Which means the stats do indeed reflect the actual crime rate, and as the linked article says, are not indicative of "crappy police work".

[MOD CUT]

Last edited by Ludja; 04-11-2009 at 08:15 PM.. Reason: personal attack
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Old 04-11-2009, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Montana
1,219 posts, read 1,923,425 times
Reputation: 635
Anyone catch the horribly one sided 20/20 yesterday? Man the libs gobble up the media like a kid with a pez dispenser. What about all the stats of people using firearms and SURVIVING threats? They just picked a bunch of college kids and did experiments and showed bogus statistics..

I'd like to see some college kids fresh out of the infantry in that kind of comparison, or kids that grew up in farm/ranch settings. The best one to protect one's self is the person being threatened.

I do agree that it is much different in rural places than it is in the cities, but man to disarm the nation? That would bring more problems than we could ever imagine. Not to mention all the law enforcement lives that would be lost during the attempt. Very bad idea.
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Old 04-11-2009, 04:34 PM
 
11,962 posts, read 7,034,828 times
Reputation: 2772
Timberwolf I wouldn't blame this on liberals as much as I'd blame it on lack of education coming from the right. If this were a perfect world and every child in america had a perfect education, I'd have city folks and country folks swapping children in the summertime to see how the other half lives. The best lessons I've gotten in life came when I traveled all these circles. I got to learn what there was to appreciate from all walks of life. It's made me a very wealthy woman as result, even if most of what I value is not measured by capitalism. I attribute most of my success in life to the gifts of knowledge ordinary people have shared.
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Old 04-11-2009, 04:44 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
6,298 posts, read 6,913,747 times
Reputation: 1922
Quote:
Originally Posted by harborlady View Post
Timberwolf I wouldn't blame this on liberals as much as I'd blame it on lack of education coming from the right. If this were a perfect world and every child in america had a perfect education, I'd have city folks and country folks swapping children in the summertime to see how the other half lives. The best lessons I've gotten in life came when I traveled all these circles. I got to learn what there was to appreciate from all walks of life. It's made me a very wealthy woman as result, even if most of what I value is not measured by capitalism. I attribute most of my success in life to the gifts of knowledge ordinary people have shared.
Some of our ancestors did this -- it was called fostering, and the whole idea was to broaden their kids' perspective on the world.

As to the many people SAVED from violence because either they or someone nearby was armed -- the most conservative stats I've seen run to approx. 1 MILLION incidents per year, with the highest estimates being 2 to 3 times that. This is vastly beyond the number of gun-related crimes.

I've personally rescued my neighbour from an assailant who broke into her house and was beating her up (not that she hadn't earned it, but still...) and have saved myself from gods know what at least a couple times -- because I was armed. I couldn't have done it with just my "9-stone weakling" self or even a big stick.
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Old 04-11-2009, 04:50 PM
 
11,962 posts, read 7,034,828 times
Reputation: 2772
Reziac I did try to get a thread going about this subject, but too many gun advocates were attracted to the juicy bashing argument threads. Please add your stats where you can find them to this thread.
Where are the honest statistics for thwarting crime?
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