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Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,761,129 times
Reputation: 3587
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The right wing in this country always lies and distorts the health systems in Canada and the UK. Being married to a Canadian and having had my own little experience with the Ontario health system, I can tell you that it is as good and even better in some respects than the American system is. For example, when I became ill with a severe and painful ear infection on a Saturday, the only place in the USA I could have got any care was the ER or suffer in pain until Monday. Luckily I was in Toronto with my wife and they have care clinics that are open until 8PM everyday. I was able to see a doctor within 20 minutes of walking in and he cleaned out and medicated the ear and gave me 2 prescriptions. All for $50 US. If I had been a Canadian, it would have cost me ZERO! Oh, and the prescriptions were about half if what they cost here.
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,761,129 times
Reputation: 3587
Another thing a right wing talk show host was saying was that "people that live in Windsor have to go to Detroit to get an MRI done". But then the facts came out that the government of Ontario contracts with a hospital in Detroit to do MRIs because the number of MRIs done for people in Windsor did not justify the million dollar cost of a machine in Windsor. That sounds like smart money management to me- not poor healthcare.
Interesting observation you made - the number of General Practice doctors is declining to be sure. As are certain specialties including OB/GYN.
However, certain specialties are doing fairly well including Ortho and Cancer physicans.
The risks (legal and monetary) have been escalating too much for the GP's of the world to stay around - the financial rewards simply are not there
Ah, I long for the good 'ole days when Doctors still made housecalls!!!
I also like being able to get in to see a specialist in a very short period of time as it is now also - Called for a Cardio specialist to do a full workup this past Monday - routine stuff - going this coming Monday.
I'm going to regret this, but..... I am in a group w/ an OBGYN, he is worn out working in a low population area. He was the only delivery doctor because of the high cost of insurance. A SINGLE payer system is worth a try, it can't get worse!! (The house call went away when insurance said its not cost effective.)
The right wing in this country always lies and distorts the health systems in Canada and the UK. Being married to a Canadian and having had my own little experience with the Ontario health system, I can tell you that it is as good and even better in some respects than the American system is. For example, when I became ill with a severe and painful ear infection on a Saturday, the only place in the USA I could have got any care was the ER or suffer in pain until Monday. Luckily I was in Toronto with my wife and they have care clinics that are open until 8PM everyday. I was able to see a doctor within 20 minutes of walking in and he cleaned out and medicated the ear and gave me 2 prescriptions. All for $50 US. If I had been a Canadian, it would have cost me ZERO! Oh, and the prescriptions were about half if what they cost here.
Generally, in the US, doctors have an on-call system for after hours care. You call the office, if they think you need to be seen, you will be seen. There is also the option of going to an urgent care center, which are usually open weekends. It is my understanding the Canadian system does not pay for drugs.
The right wing in this country always lies and distorts the health systems in Canada and the UK. Being married to a Canadian and having had my own little experience with the Ontario health system, I can tell you that it is as good and even better in some respects than the American system is. For example, when I became ill with a severe and painful ear infection on a Saturday, the only place in the USA I could have got any care was the ER or suffer in pain until Monday. Luckily I was in Toronto with my wife and they have care clinics that are open until 8PM everyday. I was able to see a doctor within 20 minutes of walking in and he cleaned out and medicated the ear and gave me 2 prescriptions. All for $50 US. If I had been a Canadian, it would have cost me ZERO! Oh, and the prescriptions were about half if what they cost here.
If you were in the states it would have been how much more??
Apples and oranges, and another issue we disagree on. I will gladly fund the fight against a society that wants to eradicate our society until the end of my days. Peace through strength.
I will not, however, go willingly into socialized health care.
OK, so health care via bankrupcy is much more your style? Simply let the poor and whoever else without health insurance take care of their huge bills associated with such things as heart attacks, cancer and severe injuries by declaring bankrupcy.
Again..where is your data to suggest that? How do you know the mind of so many doctors?
As a matter of fact the information I have posted has been taken from a website of Doctors FOR an NHI system. Many doctors find that medicare is their BEST payer.. many would welcome a one payer system that let's them cut their administrative cost, which currently take up 10% of their income. It would also free them up to actually take care of patients rather than spend the many hours a day/week that they spend FIGHTING the insurance companies trying to do what's best for their patients.
Your statements are not backed by any real fact and are just.. well empty! I have pointed to various articles and references which show that in fact Dr's would and have braced the idea of a one payer Universal Healthcare System. My own doctor, as a matter of fact, is appalled at how many American's go uninsured.
Are there a few doctors out there that may be opposed.. of course there are. Will those doctors elect to opt out and only take those individuals that supplement their NHI with Private.. sure there are.. it exists in Britian too. As Geero pointed out, however, Doctors prefer the NHI. because it's simple, mainstream, quicker payments and guaranteed payments etc.
I've provided facts, you've just chosen to ignore them. I've provided a link in another one of your redundant threads that quotes a study that states that 8 out of 10 physicians in the UK would get out of the NHI system if they could, so they don't seem to "prefer" that system. I provided link to a study that shows that Canadians spend much less time per visit than Americans because the doctors have so many more patients. More patients increase administrative costs.
The problem with the NHI payments is though they may be quicker and guaranteed, they are much less, providing less profit to guy more and/or better equipment. One reason there is such a long wait for procedures such as MRI's is because the MRI machines aren't afforable and are less available.
I've provided facts, you've just chosen to ignore them. I've provided a link in another one of your redundant threads that quotes a study that states that 8 out of 10 physicians in the UK would get out of the NHI system if they could, so they don't seem to "prefer" that system. I provided link to a study that shows that Canadians spend much less time per visit than Americans because the doctors have so many more patients. More patients increase administrative costs.
The problem with the NHI payments is though they may be quicker and guaranteed, they are much less, providing less profit to guy more and/or better equipment. One reason there is such a long wait for procedures such as MRI's is because the MRI machines aren't afforable and are less available.
First of all I have been on these threads and healthcare quite regularly and haven't seen the link to your "report" so if you would be so kind as to provide it it would be greatly appreciated. This way I can see exactly WHO did this "study".
Ive pointd to data that shows the exact opposite.. that Dr's in an NHI system get to spend MORE Time with eatch of their patients because they have less paperwork AND most importantly spend less time fighting the various bean counters at insurance companies trying to get treatment for their patients. Also.. the "more patients, less doctors" has a lot to do with what specialty the Dr is in.. in otherwords is it a field that has a lot of physicians or does supply outrank demand.. which has NOTHING to do with whether Canada is an NHI system or not. As a matter of fact, depending on where you live,you can have a shortage of specialists here in the U.S. Add to the fact that the Dr. now has a huge load of patients due to high demand AND the fact that him and his staff have to spend counltess amount of hours and paperwork fighting insurance companies and submitting billing to over 150 different payors, and the U.S system can be said to be just about the same if not worse than any Canadian or UK system.
Dr's incomes are less, yes.. I've acknowledge that and the studies I've pointed to have acknowledged that.. however, those differences in income are made up in the area of administrative costs that each Dr must spend here in the U.S with the mountains of paperwork and nonsense required when dealing with insurance companies... both fighting to get what a patient needs covered, billing and then collecting. Dr's spend on average 10% of the money they take in on their administrative costs. Not a problem in a UHI or NHI system.. which I believe hovers around the 3% mark.
As for the MRI issue.. that one seems to come up alot.. and it seems to be just an MRI issue. I'm not sure WHY they have such a shortage or such a high demand. BUt, I've also read that one area of Canada, which has a smaller population, has worked with a U.S hospital on arrangements for patients to recieve MRI's in the U.S because it wasnt' cost effective for the millions of dollars worth of equipment where they lived because the demand was not so great due to a smaller population. And again.. my data that I've pointed to have spoken about wait times being regional and NOT a widespread problem everywhere in Canada. MRI is one area in a field of many.. and if lack of MRI's is their problem and the only one of their biggest problems... I think that is acceptable. Our problems with our system are so much more..well much bigger, broader and much more of a problem.
I've pointed to several orginizatinos with different studies and research including the New England Journal of Medicine. The more articles you have ,thebetter to make your case with to support your numbers. One article is good (and again.. I'd like that link if you'd be so kind) but one article or one study hardly makes it so.
I've also said that UK and Canada are good models.. but that doesn't mean we'd have to do EXACTLY as they have done. Is there system perfect? No.. no system, no government, no country.. no ANYTHING is EVER perfect. or without it's hiccups and problems. But it is a VAST improvement upon our very broken system. I'm sure, rather than face bankruptcy to pay for medical bills, or to go without medical care Canadians and UK citizens would take their system ANY day over ours!
Does anyone have any information as to what the practice is in Australia? I am a member of another forum (a quilting forum) where some of the members reside in the UK, Canada, South Africa and Australia. I would be inviting them to individually post here to provide their thoughts on each of their respective localities. I know that one of them is currently undergoing treatment for a brain tumor in the UK, and has expressed some dissatisfaction as to the level of care provided. I also have a neighbor who recently moved from Canada and has had trouble getting seen under 6 months before they moved for kidney stones and eventually had to get treatment here. Not that what they would post is by any means empirical data, but at least I have "live" information from someone who has been in the different systems.
NCPA - Brief Analysis 370, Would National Health Insurance Benefit Physicians? (http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba/ba370/ - broken link)
The only links you provided TM were a column by a liberal journalist/pundit and from a group of physicians who have an agenda to advance. Maybe you could provide a more credible source for your information.
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