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I have a serious crush on Chairman Richard Tice. There is a short video clip on his Twitter feed showing the huge crowd in London for the rally last night. Biggest I've seen so far.
Well, whatever the likes of Boris Johnson were saying pre vote, I thought different. I knew the EU would stitch up anybody who tried to leave their little club. Didn't take a lot of figuring out really.
Johnson surprised me when he ran for the hills after the result. It was obvious he never expected leave to win. I thought leave would win, and said so in the UK thread. I wasn't shocked at all.
I live in the north of England, and knew the depth of anger at the EU. Years of decline, and fed up voters, who didn't vote any more. Well, they came out to vote this time, and how.
This is another reason I know we will leave the EU. If we didn't, the anger would grow, and cause massive problems down the line in politics. Because of open voting in Parliament, we know just who votes for and against what. We will end political careers when given the chance. The self serving lackeys in the House of Commons know this. All that matters to them in the end, is their own political skins.
The Tories voted themselves in a woman who wanted to remain in the EU, while negotiating our exit. She said she would honour the result of the vote. Well, we see the result of that, and now she is locked in number 10 Downing Street no doubt crying some bitter tears. The Tories need to find someone as leader who will actually take us out of the EU. The lesson they get tomorrow from the voters, in the EU elections, should concentrate minds. If they don't learn fast, when the next General Election arrives, then they will be decimated, and may never recover.
The problem no though Dave is there is only chaos available as an alternative. The brexit thing suggest maybe mid 40% of the people are for Brexit. But the remainder split between the Tories and Labour. So you end up with no one able to govern. And it is not clear that an English majority would go for Brexit at this point. I would guess that well has been so polluted that even some who would have loved to drink from it won't touch it.
So what next? Brexit will poison a general election. Another Brexit vote? Given a Brexit loss the thing goes on forever. Would be resolved on a Brexit win...but it could get awfully ugly in England with a sharp separation leading to a hostile EU.
This does not really match the pre-Brexit talk, does it? The Brexiteers were crowing about the magnificent trade deals they'd be getting - Boris Johnson declared the idea of EU putting tariffs on UK products "insane".
This is not being punished. You dropped your gym membership, and you're being told you can no longer use the equipment. The UK simply didn't have the negotiation position it thought.
On that, we agree. But all the Brexiteers suddenly remembered they had pressing previous engagements, didn't they? May is a scapegoat, who got caught between the Brexiteers' promises of a Unicorn in every flowerpot and the grim reality that no, the EU isn't super-interested in being an active participant in its own dismantling. She'll be out the second Brexit is a reality, and Boris (most likely) will enter No. 10, being able to park any problem at the feet of either May or the EU.
No, it doesn't match the Brexit talk, nor the optimistic posts on this forum about how the EU would come around in the end because the UK was such a valuable trading partner. Countless posts on how my VWs Brits buy.
The UK simply does not have the negotiating position many imagined. Blaming May for being a poor negotiator isn't going to change that. Sounds like she's about ready to throw in the towel. Have to see if she does and if the next PM can get a better deal.
Meanwhile, banks and businesses continue to relocate their non-UK operations.
The problem no though Dave is there is only chaos available as an alternative. The brexit thing suggest maybe mid 40% of the people are for Brexit. But the remainder split between the Tories and Labour. So you end up with no one able to govern. And it is not clear that an English majority would go for Brexit at this point. I would guess that well has been so polluted that even some who would have loved to drink from it won't touch it.
So what next? Brexit will poison a general election. Another Brexit vote? Given a Brexit loss the thing goes on forever. Would be resolved on a Brexit win...but it could get awfully ugly in England with a sharp separation leading to a hostile EU.
It's going to be messy whatever we do. There is no easy answer. The one thing that is clear to me, is that we have to leave the EU now. Anything else will mean constant anger among a large part of the especially English population, which is the massive majority in the UK.
If we had lost the 2016 vote to the remainers, then we would have shrugged our shoulders, and said that's that. We tried, and failed to convince enough of the people to vote leave. But we won against the odds. Only people who live here in the UK can understand just how this vote was set up for remain to win. So much so, the politicians were having a party in number 10 Downing Street, awaiting the result. The money men went to bed sleeping soundly with a job well done. They were all wrong.
We were told this was a once in a lifetime vote, and the result would stand, whatever it was. Government propaganda came through the post to every house in the country, telling us to vote remain for our own good. Votes given to people who should never have had one like the Irish citizens living in my country, who were advised by the Irish government to vote remain.
But, what was front in my mind was the sneering EU sending PM David Cameron packing, and refusing him any concessions at all to help him win the vote to remain. A feeling within me, and millions of others, that the EU called the shots, and this would grow ever more so. Well, we raised ourselves, and unlike other countries, refuse to bow to the EU anymore.
After political heads rolled, all politicians promised to respect the result of the vote. That didn't last long, and as they regrouped, set out to thwart the vote, and keep us in the EU. Hopefully, now at last, especially after the results are in from today's EU vote, Theresa May will be the latest politician to see her career end. She won't be the last unless we leave the EU as the democratic vote said we must.
Once we're out, it will be hard for us, but there is no choice if this political crisis is to heal. The result of the democratic vote must be carried out, and then we can move on, and rebuild as best we can outside the EU. The French especially will try and damage us, and we must just do the best we can, but remembering long term who our enemies are. We have survived worse than this in living memory, and we will survive this mess as well.
,So you were told that this was a "once in a lifetime" vote and that the results would stand.
You were told quite a number of things that upon closer examination turned out not to be true. At least now many are starting to realize that leaving the EU will not be as pain free as promised.
In any case, forward ever. Britain will indeed get through this.
As to the political crisis healing after Brexit, that remains to be seen.
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Theresa May is going, there's meeting with the 1922 committee and the probable out come of all of this will be the selection of a Bexiteer such as Boris Johnson, whilst Nigel Farage is also once again a major political force.
Theresa May tried to comprimise with the EU, however the EU are about to get their worst nightmare and its their own fault and the same is true of todays European elections which will see Anti EU Parties and the Right becoming a powerful force in the EU Parliament and replacing the centerist and left.
Don't listen to countries and member states on issues, try to make an example of the British, whilst punishing Eastern Europe for their views, and even annoying the populations of traditional supportive countries such as France and Germany then this is what happens. Whilst the Euro crisis has still not been forgotten in Southern Europe, which is still in a financial mess with mass unemployment and even an increase in suicides.
Juncker is now getting out while he can, and Tusk will no doubt follow.
Last edited by Brave New World; 05-23-2019 at 04:30 AM..
Theresa May is going, there's meeting with the 1922 committee and the probable out come of all of this will be the selection of a Bexiteer such as Boris Johnson, whilst Nigel Farage is also once again a major political force.
Theresa May tried to comprimise with the EU, however the EU are about to get their worst nightmare and its their own fault and the same is true of todays European elections which will see Anti EU Parties and the Right becoming a powerful force in the EU Parliament and replacing the centerist and left.
Don't listen to countries and member states on issues, try to make an example of the British, whilst punishing Eastern Europe for their views, and even annoying the populations of traditional supportive countries such as France and Germany then this is what happens. Whilst the Euro crisis has still not been forgotten in Southern Europe, which is still in a financial mess.
Juncker is now getting out wehile the goings good, and Tusk will no doubt follow.
All will be quiet today in the Tory ranks. They don't want to frighten off whatever votes they can get in the Euro elections. Once the polling stations close tonight, then they will carry on, especially after they get the word back from the exit polls just how it went.
Tomorrow, we may finally see the back of the useless Theresa May. I can't say I am hopeful of anything good coming from Boris Johnson becoming PM. He showed himself to be a bolter after the shock 2016 vote result. I can understand he didn't really expect leave to win, but running for the hills didn't look good.
The European Parliament is going to look very different after the vote. It isn't just the UK who are fed up of how folks like Juncker and Tusk have handled Brexit.
I feel we are heading for the exit door of the EU without a deal. It doesn't matter who is PM, the EU have said the deal is what it is, and they're not going to reopen it. OK then....... time to walk. I just hope we have a PM with some guts. Who it is doesn't matter to me.
Status:
"“If a thing loves, it is infinite.”"
(set 1 day ago)
Location: Great Britain
27,166 posts, read 13,455,286 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by English Dave
All will be quiet today in the Tory ranks. They don't want to frighten off whatever votes they can get in the Euro elections. Once the polling stations close tonight, then they will carry on, especially after they get the word back from the exit polls just how it went.
Tomorrow, we may finally see the back of the useless Theresa May. I can't say I am hopeful of anything good coming from Boris Johnson becoming PM. He showed himself to be a bolter after the shock 2016 vote result. I can understand he didn't really expect leave to win, but running for the hills didn't look good.
The European Parliament is going to look very different after the vote. It isn't just the UK who are fed up of how folks like Juncker and Tusk have handled Brexit.
I feel we are heading for the exit door of the EU without a deal. It doesn't matter who is PM, the EU have said the deal is what it is, and they're not going to reopen it. OK then....... time to walk. I just hope we have a PM with some guts. Who it is doesn't matter to me.
As long as it's a Brexiteer, rather than Remainer May then I am quite happy.
The EU bought this on it's self, it could have comprimised with May and come out of this well, but Barnier, Tusk, Juncker and the rest of he corrupt EU leadership thought they would be clever.
What they are about to get is there worst nightmare and defence cooperation and everything else could now be put in jeopardy.
As for the EU elections, I expect the EU establishment will take a hammering.
As for Broris, he did try to become PM but Gove famously stabbed him in the back, and he as Foreign Secretary but resigned on principle following May's Chequers EU deal, so it's a bit unfauir to say he ran away.
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