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Old 10-22-2016, 10:05 AM
 
8,104 posts, read 3,947,502 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
The poor are getting help. The problem is instead of appreciating the help you get, you demand more even though the people forced to pay your bill is struggling to pay their own bills.
Actually, the welfare handed out per person has decreased in the last 20 years.
Cash Assistance has mostly done away with.
Food Stamps per person have been cut

And these cuts were mostly done by Democrats like Bill Clinton

The welfare budget itself has ballooned to historic highs though but that is because of disastrous policies by globalists


Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person...pportunity_Act

Quote:
The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996 (PRWORA) is a United States federal law considered to be a major welfare reform. The bill was a cornerstone of the Republican Contract with America and was authored by Rep. E. Clay Shaw, Jr. (R-FL-22). President Bill Clinton signed PRWORA into law on August 22, 1996, fulfilling his 1992 campaign promise to "end welfare as we have come to know it".[1]

All the policies we have had in the past 30 years have been to enrich the already to Big and Wealthy and to punish everyone else.

It is about consolidating power and wealth into fewer and fewer hands
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Old 10-22-2016, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Madison, WI
5,299 posts, read 2,345,580 times
Reputation: 1227
Quote:
Originally Posted by J746NEW View Post
The problem with this is that every other nation protects their economy and its people and prevents foreigners from coming to their country and buying property or living here and taking others jobs.

In order for it to work, all countries need to be on the same page as ours if we are to do trade with them.

If an American worker has to compete with an Indian making 2 bucks an hour, where housing and food is 5 times cheaper it is not going to work and I would support those American workers overthrowing the government and big business.

We have the most expensive housing in the world in this country because of special interests like the Big Banks, Foreign Buyers and Lobbyists

Lobbyists want the highest prices for their pockets here in this country and want the lowest cost utilizing slave labor abroad
One question to ponder... If people in other countries just gave us a bunch of stuff for free, would that not be a good thing? Or would it be better if we refused those goods and services and did it all ourselves?
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Old 10-22-2016, 10:09 AM
 
8,104 posts, read 3,947,502 times
Reputation: 3070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
No protection for workers and management holds all the power? Worked great last time!! /endsarcasm
Yup and that arrangement would not be capitalism but fascism.
All parties in capitalism are entitled to negotiating power when it concerns them and trade pacts certainly concern them.

Labor never had a say in the trade pacts we have.
The trade pacts should be abolished and the people that made them thrown in prison
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Old 10-22-2016, 10:14 AM
 
8,104 posts, read 3,947,502 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest View Post



Concur here too. Capitalism has never been about reducing the role of government in the economy. Rather it has encouraged the nature of government intervention away from protections of the worker & toward the defense of interests of large capital.
Exactly!

Right now Big Business pretty much runs DC and have for the last 30 years

How Corporate Lobbyists Conquered American Democracy
How Corporate Lobbyists Conquered American Democracy - The Atlantic

The self-reinforcing quality of corporate lobbying has increasingly come to overwhelm every other potentially countervailing force.


The problem is that the corporate fascists do not have 100 complete control over our government that is the problem.

That is also not Capitalism but Fascism
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Old 10-22-2016, 10:18 AM
 
8,104 posts, read 3,947,502 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T0103E View Post
One question to ponder... If people in other countries just gave us a bunch of stuff for free, would that not be a good thing? Or would it be better if we refused those goods and services and did it all ourselves?
Except we are getting nothing for Free.

The Apple Iphone costs 200 bucks including labor to make and the corporation sells it back to us for 650 bucks.

The savings go to wall street not the average consumer
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Old 10-22-2016, 10:23 AM
 
6,326 posts, read 6,566,374 times
Reputation: 7457
I am always amazed at "free marketeer's" definitions of freedom, I bet George Orwell stole a few ideas for his books from them.
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Old 10-22-2016, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Prepperland
18,927 posts, read 14,111,175 times
Reputation: 16638
Since there is no correlation between the marketplace of goods and services, and the value / volume of circulating money tokens (whether legal tender or lawful money), it is foolish to argue about a "free market" that is constrained by money madness.

Remember, barter does not require money. If a nation's transactions were entirely barter, there would be no way to calculate the "Gross Domestic Product." Likewise, any activity that is unpaid, like child care by parents, has no appearance in the tally sheet of the great marketplace.

Frankly, usury and money madness are the roots of most evil.
Money is not the answer to the ills of mankind.
Money causes poverty.
Money doesn't cure poverty.

To illustrate, imagine that tomorrow, the whole world wakes to the knowledge that each individual has an account balance of 27 billion quatloos of gold coin.

What happens when "everyone" is equally "rich"?
No one needs money!
[] Does that spur more or less production?
[] Does anyone bother to go to work and produce goods and services?

Common sense tells us that civilization would collapse if no one bothered to work, thinking that they all were rich. Even the starving children would be wealthy!

The current economic system operates on 'money madness' and the belief in the 'value' of money instead of the reality of surplus goods and services. Those who accumulate a surplus of money tokens, can thus compel others who lack money tokens to do work, and trade output, while not doing anything of value in exchange.

Thus we see people striving to "get rich" but not necessarily striving to produce more goods and services, with which to equitably trade.

Money and wealth are not signs of prosperity.
Prosperity is the production, equitable trade and enjoyment of surplus usable goods and services.
Doing more with less so more can enjoy is the key to finding happiness.
Doing less with more so few can enjoy is the key to misery.

A 'money mad' people will never find a resolution to their economic woes.
The remedy to economic woes is prosperity which has nothing to do with money token ownership, but the productive capacity of the people, their ability to trade, and then enjoy the fruits of that production.

Coincidentally, government has no power to "create" money.
Pursuant to the USCON, Congress can coin money (stamp bullion) or borrow money. If Congress could create money (bullion), why would it need to borrow money?

IF government cannot create money, who can?

Private Promissory Notes:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/30967154-post1.html

Fourth Way to Prosperity:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/34302044-post13.html
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Old 10-22-2016, 10:33 AM
 
6,326 posts, read 6,566,374 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J746NEW View Post
Yup and that arrangement would not be capitalism but fascism.
All parties in capitalism are entitled to negotiating power when it concerns them and trade pacts certainly concern them.

Labor never had a say in the trade pacts we have.
The trade pacts should be abolished and the people that made them thrown in prison
It's totally not true, fascism i.e. corporatism in the old fashioned meaning of the word (as in corporate spirit) valued all cogs, Hitler and Mussolini made a priority of improving worker' lot through series of "executive actions" German workers never had it better at the time, the Fuhrer needed strong, healthy and somewhat intelligent soldiers, and German free marketeers never considered those things to be a priority until Adolf made them an offer they could not refuse. That's another danger of free marketeers they will keep on screwing workers to the point when they fill follow dubious characters promising them relief and appreciation.
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Old 10-22-2016, 10:48 AM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,901,503 times
Reputation: 3461
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
I am always amazed at "free marketeer's" definitions of freedom, I bet George Orwell stole a few ideas for his books from them.
Very big admirer of Mr. Orwell here too.

I seem to be in a perpetual state of astonishment when considering the Free Market Fundamentalists unusual definitions & the various illogical, impractical, & sometimes inhumane concepts which often lack the internal coherence necessary for a robust economic system.

After all, their ideology had already been dismissed in the free & unfettered marketplace of ideas by the mid to late 20th century. The more recent resurgence seems to be related to the politically usefulness of their ideology when applied by corporate entities, including their legislative lapdogs. Supply-side &/or trickle down economics on steroids proscribed by the associated doctor/priests.
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Old 10-22-2016, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,856 posts, read 17,304,172 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by T0103E View Post
What do you mean by this? The market is just individuals trading with each other voluntarily, so I don't see why it's necessary to have a third party step in and tell people whether or not they're allowed to trade with each other.

Either way, you can apply market principles to anything, including dispute resolution. People always worry about monopolies and say we're better off when other organizations are there to compete and offer alternatives, but they don't apply that same idea to the services the government has a monopoly on.
It's not a monopoly when the government does it. It's a form of "necessary regulation".

Just like it's not murder, theft, and impeding physical movement when the government does it. It's "justice", "taxation", and "zoning".

Try to keep up. You sound like an individual every time you make these claims. Collectivism is your friend. Embrace it!

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