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Well, the government has been f*cking over vets since ................... since forever! I've heard it from WWII vets, Korean War vets, Nam vets, and now this. Tears me up how the fat politicians can wave the flag and praise the military during voting season, but turn around and condone this. This should be a headline, and instead it's buried on the back pages.
This seems like a good place to jump in.
It seems that enough people know about it now. The question is, why now? According to an article here or there, it seems like many have had the letter to pay back for at least two years.
So why are we finding out about it now? Why didn't we hear about it earlier?
Finally, whenever something very dispicable turns up in the news, especially something that has been around for a while and only "now" people decide to raise a stink (nutshell speaking for this really STINKS) about it..............................
...........................I start wondering if there is something else out there that "they" really don't want us to know about.
Don't even try and tell me that a military than can "lose" billions in a foreign country can't afford to allow the money promised to our soldiers. Absolutely no one is going to buy that.
No it is not. If I run a franchise and I'm told to find a contractor to remodel our restaurant but I can spend only $750,000 but unable to find one for that I sign a contract for $900,000 the business is going to be on the hook for $900,000.
You keep saying they are not entitled to it. They are. They held up their end of the contract.
exactly.
IT IS OUTRAGEOUS, and they should ALL REFUSE TO PAY.
They need a good class action lawyer to represent the bulk of them, some of whom who have been bullied to repay the money by taking out loans on their houses.
WE PRINT MONEY FOR CRYING OUT LOUD.
Our leaders are despicable people, and they need a swift kick in the butt.
They weren't promised that money by the people authorized to make such promises. Bonuses can't be promised at that level. Bonus authorizations come from the very top.
No, the person promising was delegated the authority to engage in these contracts. What I am wondering is how can these contracts, for 10,000 people, have passed through all the checks they do when it goes through admin all the way to authorizing the money to be dispersed. That is a lot of people working in their field not noticing this.
The admin folks who process this stuff have a general idea of these things through experience, so it is amazing no one noticed the oddities in people who never before got bonuses, all of a sudden were getting them, and thousands of people getting the bonuses. Red flags of some sort should have been raised.
When I did my reenlistments, I signed the papers handed to me by my command career counselor, an E6. I knew my bonus amount because it is put out once a year. If the counselor offered more with some BS reason, I would have most likely believed him because he could just have more info than I do. At that, he did have more info than I did, I also reenlisted with a promised tech school; no where did I ever see it lsited other than my contract.
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter
Secondly, they aren't entitled to it. The military pays out bonuses based on need. And usually, that need is based on a shortage of certain MOS's. If your MOS isn't short staffed in your grade, then you're not getting a bonus. So if they got those bonuses and they weren't entitled to them, that's because their MOS wasn't understaffed Army wide. To my knowledge, the military doesn't pay bonuses in exchange for deployment. Deployments are a normal part of military operations.
I would not say they are entitled to it, but they did agree to exchange their time for that amount. They were enticed to reenlist by the bonus amount, and they fulfilled their obligation to the contract. Problem is, the gov cannot give them that time back in exchange for the money.
You are correct regarding the bonus system, but that is not the soldiers' problem, they are not required to investigate the legalities of the contract, that is the gov and the reenlistment folks job, just as I did not investigate the legalities of me enlisting in the first place, my assumption is that those in charge of the system know what they are doing.
When you buy a car, I doubt you dive into the law books on contracts and make sure the dealer is properly conducting a contractual purchasing agreement correctly, or the loan officer at the bank gave you the loan interest rate in accordance with the bank's rules. Imagine if a bank came back 10 years later and asked you to give more money to them because they charged less interest than their rules allowed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter
And no, they didn't hold up their end of the contract because if that's the case, then EVERYONE should be given a bonus just because they served in the military. Bottom line, they held up their end only in that they served the time they promised to serve. That doesn't mean that you're authorized a bonus just because some reenlistment NCO found some non authorized authority to insert it in a contract. That just doesn't hold up.
I have no idea how you come to this conclusion. They upheld their end of the contract. The contract simply stated they give X years of time for X$ amount. They gave their time, the gov gave the money. Now the gov wants the money back, but the soldiers cannot get their time back.
No, it is not a case that then everyone should get a bonus, not everyone signed with a promise of X$. These soldiers did reenlist with a promise of X$. What does not hold up is the gov providing a contractual arrangement, in which the soldiers fulfilled, then ten years later the gov concluding that fraud on their part is involved, and oh yea, give back the money. Many of these soldiers were enticed by the bonus to stay in, and would have not given years of their life to the military if not for the bonus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter
If the bonuses are upheld even though they weren't authorized, then they'd have to give them to everyone that isn't supposed to have one.
That's not gonna happen.
Not at all, I have no idea how you come to this conclusion. Bonus amounts change all of the time, and those soldiers had it in their contract what they were to get, and reenlistment under the pretense of them getting this bonus, which now after they served their time, fulfilling their contract, the gov ten years later is reneging on the contract.
The military does have their hands tied with the law, but I do not appreciate the little sneaky, low down way they decided to collect the money. They knew damn well the issues behind this, people have made major life decisions based off of this money. If they actually had good faith in this, they would have collected everyone and explained the issue, and approached Congress to do something about it. But no, they send out letters, and try to keep it on the down low.
Even better, THEY CHARGED INTEREST FOR THIS! Unbelievable, the gov has the nerve to not only ask for the money back, but charged interest for it.
I suspect Congress will do something about this, it already has bi-partisan support. A federal judge should put a stop on the payment collections until it gets settled.
It seems that enough people know about it now. The question is, why now? According to an article here or there, it seems like many have had the letter to pay back for at least two years.
So why are we finding out about it now? Why didn't we hear about it earlier?
Finally, whenever something very dispicable turns up in the news, especially something that has been around for a while and only "now" people decide to raise a stink (nutshell speaking for this really STINKS) about it..............................
...........................I start wondering if there is something else out there that "they" really don't want us to know about.
The military, knowing they screwed up, tried to keep it on the down low. They knew damn well the issue this was, so instead of collecting everyone together and explaining the issue, and going to Congress about the legalities on the issue, they just quietly send letters out as if it is just standard $1500 over payment someone got last year before they got out.
I think it hit the news with the lawsuit that was filed about it. You notice the news of it came from the soldiers, not the military.
Hopefully Congress will do something about it, I have a feeling they will.
Should ever single person who ever got a bonus now worry that the gov, ten, 20, 30 years from now will want the money back? Should a person reenlist with a bonus has a reason, wondering if the gov will come for it years later?
The military, knowing they screwed up, tried to keep it on the down low. They knew damn well the issue this was, so instead of collecting everyone together and explaining the issue, and going to Congress about the legalities on the issue, they just quietly send letters out as if it is just standard $1500 over payment someone got last year before they got out.
I think it hit the news with the lawsuit that was filed about it. You notice the news of it came from the soldiers, not the military.
Hopefully Congress will do something about it, I have a feeling they will.
Should ever single person who ever got a bonus now worry that the gov, ten, 20, 30 years from now will want the money back? Should a person reenlist with a bonus has a reason, wondering if the gov will come for it years later?
We-ll, okay. Renewed my faith in the universe that everything isn't necessary underhanded.........
As far as "buyer beware", two things. First of all about worrying that it may happen to anyone? I would say yes to which the best advice is probably to take say bonuses and put them someplace where they sit and earn interest.
Secondly, learning to look at things with a questioning eye is probably a skill learned by age, if not experience. When I was applying for government investigation jobs, about a decade ago, one of my questions at the interview was how was the position funded. I didn't want to leave my long standing job for something that was going to evaporate in a year.
One learns. Back in the late Cold War in Charleston, a new beautiful fast food delivery service showed. It had all the bells and whistles and probably lured away many of the lowly workers from their established jobs. When it finally went into operation, it disappeared practically overnight. We speculated that someone had funds that they needed to sink somewhere, perhaps to declare a loss. Nice financial strategy but the heck with the people it used.
It seems that enough people know about it now. The question is, why now? According to an article here or there, it seems like many have had the letter to pay back for at least two years.
So why are we finding out about it now? Why didn't we hear about it earlier?
Finally, whenever something very dispicable turns up in the news, especially something that has been around for a while and only "now" people decide to raise a stink (nutshell speaking for this really STINKS) about it..............................
...........................I start wondering if there is something else out there that "they" really don't want us to know about.
Yeah but if you think about it, it's a strategic move. I'm sure these people have been hitting the bureaucratic wall for years, now that the politicos want to get elected and that they want to look good to the vets, they'll address the problem(?).
It seems completely reasonable to expect recruiters and logistics to become aggressive to fill demands for personnel. If someone up the line said, use bonuses to keep trained soldiers, that would also seem reasonable. In fact it makes a lot of sense given we now have only a volunteer military, so there are sudden demands and no time to induct and train new soldiers. What really disturbs me is, these men and women agreed to continue disrupting their lives and serve their country beyond their obligation, so they deserved it and the government wants it back. But at the same time, congress has approved funds to transition refugees from those same war torn countries, and there isn't a peep about it. How much did these bonuses come to, ~$15M? Congress has approved over $1B for refugee resettlement. Sorry, but this is wrong.
There were plenty of checks and over site that should have been able to catch any discrepancies between the CA guard and the Pentagon. It definitely seems suspicious.
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