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Old 02-25-2008, 07:58 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,879 posts, read 77,113,264 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
And yet, there are people who can work the system, and do it quite well.

Case in point? I worked on a project for a public housing authority in a city near mine. One of my assignments was to interview residents to help establish that public housing played an important role in helping people become functioning members of society.

And, I agree that about half the people were legitimating using public housing for its intended purpose--people who had a bad run of luck. But then I interviewed resident after resident who had lived in public house for years. One woman had been in public housing for fifty years. She was person of reasonable intelligence who had sat there for fifty years watching television. I ran into lots of people like that, people who had no jobs, no nothing. And this is in a market with unemployment rates of 2.5-3.0%.

So you'll get no argument out of me that welfare and public housing are legitimate functions of government. However, in an economy that is hitting on all cylinders (And, even today, outside of the Rust Belt, there are plenty of states where unemployment is under 4%), there is simply no excuse for normal, able-bodied people to not have gainful employment--and to suck at the government's teats while doing it.
Maybe you can explain something to me that has me confused. Can't people get vouchers - Sec. 8 vouchers - public assistance and then go rent from anyone who accepts those vouchers? Someone said earlier - well people are living at Cabrini Green - but that is not the situation in places where nice homes are rented out to people w/ Sec. 8 vouchers.

I am just confused b/c I have known several people who qualified for vouchers b/c of disability (and these were good people who had worked all their lives but from no fault of their own had health problems/injuries). Then I have heard about people who were essentially "gaming the system" and got vouchers and all sorts of other freebies . . . and were just essentially sucking off the government, getting WIC, medicaid, etc.

So I am just confused what is out there, how people qualify, etc. The people I know who get disability had to go through nearly a year of all sorts of hearings, etc. to qualify. The other people who are being given all the freebies - they just filled out papers and started getting checks.

What is the deal???
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Old 02-25-2008, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma
30,976 posts, read 21,487,738 times
Reputation: 9675
Support for welfare programs by Democrats have probably caused more people to change over to become Republicans than most other issues.
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Old 02-26-2008, 01:03 AM
 
Location: California
11,466 posts, read 19,293,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
Maybe you can explain something to me that has me confused. Can't people get vouchers - Sec. 8 vouchers - public assistance and then go rent from anyone who accepts those vouchers? Someone said earlier - well people are living at Cabrini Green - but that is not the situation in places where nice homes are rented out to people w/ Sec. 8 vouchers.

I am just confused b/c I have known several people who qualified for vouchers b/c of disability (and these were good people who had worked all their lives but from no fault of their own had health problems/injuries). Then I have heard about people who were essentially "gaming the system" and got vouchers and all sorts of other freebies . . . and were just essentially sucking off the government, getting WIC, medicaid, etc.

So I am just confused what is out there, how people qualify, etc. The people I know who get disability had to go through nearly a year of all sorts of hearings, etc. to qualify. The other people who are being given all the freebies - they just filled out papers and started getting checks.

What is the deal???
I wonder about this myself, i remember in the early 90's they were making able bodied people get off of welfare and go to work, my wife works with a few people like this but there still seems to be many able people on welfare, i can't understand how my sons friend and family can be on welfare but they are. i don't understand the whole thing.
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Old 02-26-2008, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Penobscot Bay, the best place in Maine!
1,895 posts, read 5,879,956 times
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With the Housing Choice vouchers, the renter can rent from anyone who will accept the vouchers (as long as the rental unit passes a safety and code inspection), but the amount awarded is not the actual amount of the rent, but rather an amount based on their income, family size, and a few other factors. Sure, someone with a housing voucher *could* find a willing landlord and a nice rental in a nice area, but it is likely that their voucher would only cover a portion of their rent.
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Old 02-26-2008, 10:12 AM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,376,578 times
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Basically, a Section 8 voucher will cover the difference between 30% of a voucher-holders income and a defined (and capped) Fair Market Rent. Because no landlord is required to participate in the Section 8 program, and because the FMR is often below what units can be rented for on the open market, Section 8 housing is simply non-existent in many areas. Where housing does exist, wait-lists of up to five years are not uncommon at all. The idea that you can just walk in and the government will set you up with free housing is yet another of the many delusions that are loose in our society...
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Old 02-26-2008, 10:38 AM
 
28,896 posts, read 53,951,888 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saganista View Post
Basically, a Section 8 voucher will cover the difference between 30% of a voucher-holders income and a defined (and capped) Fair Market Rent. Because no landlord is required to participate in the Section 8 program, and because the FMR is often below what units can be rented for on the open market, Section 8 housing is simply non-existent in many areas. Where housing does exist, wait-lists of up to five years are not uncommon at all. The idea that you can just walk in and the government will set you up with free housing is yet another of the many delusions that are loose in our society...
Well, then the administrator of the program that I worked with was deluded. He was pretty clear that anybody who needed public housing assistance in his market could get it in one form or another, whether living in a project or getting Section 8 vouchers. The waiting list was not years, but a couple of months. And, if the situation was dire enough for a family, things could be "expedited," to use his words.

What's more, he and I had a series of interesting conversations of how people can work the system, and do on a regular basis. Among his clients, he figured that at least 2/3rds were making under-the-table money. Think about it. Mow two yards for $25 each (which is low in our area) a day, or clean house for $80 a day, and that is the equivalent of earning $25,000 to $40,000 a year of taxable income. Add WIC, food stamps, public housing, and a host of other aid programs to the mix, and you have people who can live comfortably without ever earning a legitimate dime of income. I'm not speaking hypothetically here. This comes from my own first-hand, long-term experience dealing with a man who is an advocate for public housing.

Again, that being said, public housing is a legitimate function of government. However, it should never be considered a permanent crutch for any able-bodied person of employable age. If there is a disability or an age-related issue, sure. But the fact that there is a large number of people sponging off the system is unavoidable.
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Old 02-26-2008, 11:28 AM
 
Location: Penobscot Bay, the best place in Maine!
1,895 posts, read 5,879,956 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Well, then the administrator of the program that I worked with was deluded. He was pretty clear that anybody who needed public housing assistance in his market could get it in one form or another, whether living in a project or getting Section 8 vouchers. The waiting list was not years, but a couple of months. And, if the situation was dire enough for a family, things could be "expedited," to use his words.

What's more, he and I had a series of interesting conversations of how people can work the system, and do on a regular basis. Among his clients, he figured that at least 2/3rds were making under-the-table money. Think about it. Mow two yards for $25 each (which is low in our area) a day, or clean house for $80 a day, and that is the equivalent of earning $25,000 to $40,000 a year of taxable income. Add WIC, food stamps, public housing, and a host of other aid programs to the mix, and you have people who can live comfortably without ever earning a legitimate dime of income. I'm not speaking hypothetically here. This comes from my own first-hand, long-term experience dealing with a man who is an advocate for public housing.

Again, that being said, public housing is a legitimate function of government. However, it should never be considered a permanent crutch for any able-bodied person of employable age. If there is a disability or an age-related issue, sure. But the fact that there is a large number of people sponging off the system is unavoidable.
Not neccesarily deluded about availability- Every area is different, though. Where I am (rural Maine), there is one apartment complex in my town, and it is HUD approved. I think there are 16 family units (2-3 BRs) and 8 1-BR units suitable for disabled or senior residents. The next closest complex is about 25 miles away, and of equal size. There are waiting lists for vacancies at both complexes. Those applying for the Housing Choice vouchers are quoted an average wait of 24-36 months before they will actually recieve a voucher. I'm sure in more urban areas, with more housing units and vouchers available, the wait time may be less.

I would say he was delusional, though, about the number of people who were working under the table. There are always going to be people who take advantage of anything they can whether it be welfare or not, but I think saying that upwards of 65% are cheating to keep their benefits and/or housing is, well, unbelievable.
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Old 02-26-2008, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
2,410 posts, read 5,988,487 times
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I remember when my husband quit his job and was out of work for a few months. Our bills were such that I had to choose between food on the table and credit card payments. I went to the government building in town for help with buying food. I only wanted food stamps, no rent assistance or medical or anything else. The lady processing our claim told me that the only way they could help me is if I "got" myself pregnant.

When I asked to speak to her supervisor he told me the same thing. Needless to say credit card payments slipped until my husband found another job. I wasn't about to get pregnant to get a few extra dollars for food. I couldn't afford to feed 2 people let alone 3.......
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Old 02-26-2008, 12:33 PM
 
Location: State of Being
35,879 posts, read 77,113,264 times
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To all of you who graciously took the time to answer my questions, I truly appreciate the info. Thank you so much!

I would like to add that yes, it def does vary from city to city as well as state to state. I have been looking into this and in some areas, such as here in Charlotte . . . there are nice, decent homes available for those w/ vouchers. Now I have no problem w/ someone who has a disability taking advantage of these situations. In addition, I have found that here in CLT, the nicest places do have very long waiting lists.

As for "under the table money" - I myself personally know of quite a few of these situations as do my friends. One of my friends pays for daycare, but another woman gets a voucher for it . . . for all 3 of her kids. The woman also gets WIC, food stamps, subsidized housing. One of her "baby daddies" secretly lives w/ her and also adds income to the domicile. In addition, this woman takes free classes at the local community college as part of a job training program. And she also does house cleaning wh/ she does not claim as income. Her new car is registered in her "baby daddy's" name and his address is listed at his momma's house. She also brags about getting notified by the county about "free food giveaways down at the fairground," where she goes and get boxes of free staples, such as peanut butter, cheese, cereal, canned milk, etc.

I know of a housekeeper who is also milking the system in very much this same way . . . including receiving freebie medical care (Medicaid) for herself and her g/son, whom she adopted (even tho her daughter and the baby's daddy live with her) and also gets a subsidy check for his upkeep (from a different state - where he was born).

So yes, I think many people game the system. Please note. I do not have a plasma TV, but both these cases I mentioned above do. And my car is 17 years old, and both the women I mentioned above have cars less than 2 years old (even tho they have managed to figure out how to register them in some very "creative" fashion).

These are just situations I know about. I am paying for my son to attend college. Pretty ironic this gal who has dropped 3 illegitimate babies, is on food stamps, WIC program, getting subsidies for housing and food . . . has also managed to figure out a way to get an AA degree - FREE!!!

Last edited by brokensky; 02-26-2008 at 12:35 PM.. Reason: misspell
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Old 02-26-2008, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
7,731 posts, read 13,394,018 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Carbonni View Post
Yeah, but those "rent free apartments" are in places like Cabrini-Green.

Not a big fan of welfare, but it is pretty goofy acting like people on welfare are living the high life.
Yes it is
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