They Myth of Poverty and High Rates of Homicide (employment, thought, illegal)

[truthhurts]

Is there any correlation between large amounts of poverty and high murder rates? The answer is a resounding NO! Many have suggested the reason for large amounts of homicide is mainly attributed to large amounts of poverty. There are two camps of thought that follow this doctrine. The first, are those that would have you believe high murder rates are simply attributed to the presence of large amounts of minorities (namely blacks) in a specific area. The second is a group of liberal “progressive” individuals that would have you believe high murder rates are directly related to high rates of poverty, neither of these mis-lead groups contains a shred of factual evidence and here is why.

Most poor individuals do not reside in large, midsize, or small cities. They also do not engage in murder at vastly disproportionate rates. However, that cannot be said about the poor people that live in large cities. Why is there such a stark difference between rural poverty murder rates and large city poverty murder rates?

Just to keep the debate honest so it does not become a racially charged flame war I’ve provided statistics about most poor black people in rural areas. Notice they do not commit murders at all. If need be and this should turn into a racial flame war I can also provided statistics about poor whites in large city areas. I would like people to focus on the individual issue and leave collectivist racial crap out of it. However, knowing that boards and topics tend to go in that direction when you present this sort of controversial information, I’ll highlight the data of rural poor black people and there lack of high homicide rates. (This is only a sample of data from the state of Mississippi i could find other towns with destitute poor blacks with no crime rates etc)

• Belzoni, is 70% black and has median income of 20,000. It is the safest city in Mississippi
• Roxie, which is the third safest city in MS, is 60% black with a median income of 24,000.
• Summit is 68% black. It is the fourth safest city in MS with a median income of less than 22,000
• Louisville 52% black, no murder rate and a median income 27,000 dollars
• Bruce is 44% black
• Charleston is 60% black with a murder rate of 0.0 per 100,000 people the median income in Charleston is 18,000 dollars.
• Poverty Rates in these areas are well above 18%. However, murder rates are well below the national average and in most cases non-existent.

Anyway interested in responses to the two highlighted questions

Also note most poor people of each race live in rural areas and most poor Americans leave in rural areas. Inner city poverty only makes up like 10% of all poverty in the US.

[fishmonger]

I think it has to do with the inner-city poor being more crowded together in projects, shotgun houses, etc. When the population density is higher and everyone's poor and bored with fewer outdoor activities or opportunities for employment, that naturally would encourage gang membership, drug dealing, and theft for fun and profit among certain people at a higher level than otherwise, leading to higher crime and murder rates. Just one theory, there could be other reasons.

[truthhurts]

Originally Posted by fishmonger

I think it has to do with the inner-city poor being more crowded together in projects, shotgun houses, etc. When the population density is higher and everyone's poor and bored with fewer outdoor activities or opportunities for employment, that naturally would encourage gang membership, drug dealing, and theft for fun and profit among certain people at a higher level than otherwise, leading to higher crime and murder rates. Just one theory, there could be other reasons.

Fish, just want to play devils addvicate, but how would you explain low homicide rates in both England and Japan. These two countries are extremely densely populated etc. While I agree in America rurual poverty is less prone to murder etc than inner city poverty. Do you think the illegal trade of drugs contributes to higher rates of homicide in densly populated areas? Also is the "war on drugs" in the inner city contributing to these levels.

Hey check out the is Detroit safer now thread i wrote. Notice the high crime rate of the cities in the 1920's. Very lax laws on murder, illegal drug trade (prohibition), gambling, and large amounts of violence within cities, which were also very poor. However, the cities were usually not as poor as rurual America, which saw basically no homicides.

I think government intervention has proved disasterous and had large costly uninteded consequences.

[irwin]

Originally Posted by truthhurts

Fish, just want to play devils addvicate, but how would you explain low homicide rates in both England and Japan. These two countries are extremely densely populated etc. While I agree in America rurual poverty is less prone to murder etc than inner city poverty. Do you think the illegal trade of drugs contributes to higher rates of homicide in densly populated areas? Also is the "war on drugs" in the inner city contributing to these levels.

Hey check out the is Detroit safer now thread i wrote. Notice the high crime rate of the cities in the 1920's. Very lax laws on murder, illegal drug trade (prohibition), gambling, and large amounts of violence within cities, which were also very poor. However, the cities were usually not as poor as rurual America, which saw basically no homicides.

I think government intervention has proved disasterous and had large costly uninteded consequences.

They don't have the access to weapons in the UK and Japan that people in the US do. There are simply more guns floating around here in the US and given the gun is a pretty efficient way to murder someone, the lack of this will contribute to lower murder rates.

[truthhurts]

Originally Posted by irwin

They don't have the access to weapons in the UK and Japan that people in the US do. There are simply more guns floating around here in the US and given the gun is a pretty efficient way to murder someone, the lack of this will contribute to lower murder rates.

Okay Irwin, i'm playing devils advocate can you explain the extremely high murder rate in Mexico and many other South American cities, that have very strict gun control laws?

[irwin]

Originally Posted by truthhurts

Okay Irwin, i'm playing devils advocate can you explain the extremely high murder rate in Mexico and many other South American cities, that have very strict gun control laws?

Gun control laws are not what I am talking about. I am talking about the number of guns (both illegal and legal) floating around. In places like Mexico and South America, they have historically had a lot of guns in the country despite more recent gun control laws. The US also has a lot of guns in society.

Places like the UK and (especially) Japan have never had a high percentage of guns in the country.

[fishmonger]

Originally Posted by truthhurts

Fish, just want to play devils addvicate, but how would you explain low homicide rates in both England and Japan. These two countries are extremely densely populated etc. While I agree in America rurual poverty is less prone to murder etc than inner city poverty. Do you think the illegal trade of drugs contributes to higher rates of homicide in densly populated areas? Also is the "war on drugs" in the inner city contributing to these levels.

Hey check out the is Detroit safer now thread i wrote. Notice the high crime rate of the cities in the 1920's. Very lax laws on murder, illegal drug trade (prohibition), gambling, and large amounts of violence within cities, which were also very poor. However, the cities were usually not as poor as rurual America, which saw basically no homicides.

I think government intervention has proved disasterous and had large costly uninteded consequences.

As far as the "War On Drugs" goes, I think that you and I may actually agree on one issue at least. There are parallels between today's illegal drug trade and the bootleggers of the 1920's.

[ParkTwain]

The Right Wing claptrap never ends.

[truthhurts]

Originally Posted by ParkTwain

The Right Wing claptrap never ends.

Could you elaborate on your post a little bit? What exactly is a "Right Wing claptrap?"

[ParkTwain]

Simplistic
Anachronistic reasoning
Money-grubbing
Christian
Moralistic
Authoritarian ("police state")
Sexist
Racist

Is that enough?