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I only believe that the government should be involved in necessary fields that explode in cost due to low productivity and constrained supply.
Part of the reason that healthcare is so expensive is that the AMA purposly tries to keep the supply of doctors well below the demand so that they can continue to charge insanely high prices at everyone elses expense. So if you didn't decide to become a doctor, lawyer or investment banker, good luck affording your out of pocket portion.
Any of you conservatives ever hear of Baumol's cost disease? It is what makes healthcare and college education so expensive. Basically, medicine and education are very labor intensive (i.e. a machine can't do it), so they are at the limit of their productivity, a teacher can only teach x number of students, a doctor can only treat/operate on x number of patients. So in Milton Friedman's idea of a free market, workers in these fields' wages would have peaked at least 30 years ago. BUT, here's the kicker, if those fields did have stagnant wages, while other wages went up, no one would want to be a doctor or teacher anymore, so their wages go up far beyond their actual productivity, so talent can be aquired to the fields, and the cost of paying those ever increasing salaries has to be born out in ever higher user costs for students/patients.
The only solution to Baumol's cost disease is to nationalize the industry that is affected, hence a lot of other first world nations have taken this step and nationalized health care and college
What first world nation has nationalized health care and/or college successfully? It hasn't worked well in Canada for health care.
The Left is often looking at the Scandinavian countries as a utopian model to follow. Look at the tax rate workers in Scandinavian countries pay for nationalized health care and free college. Somebody has to pay for it. Look at the well paid pro athletes in these countries, they often move to Monaco or another lower tax country for their residency.
People are too quick to blame the ACPPA(ACA) for these rising premiums. Premiums were rising faster than inflation yearly before Obama was ever even president. 10 years ago, I was a contractor, and had to buy my own health insurance. BlueCross kept raising premiums 12% every year, yet I wasn't making 12% more money each year. So my $140/month premium in 2004 went up to $155.40/month in 2005, then up to $172.49/month in 2006, then up to $191.47/month in 2007, finally was up to $212.54/month in 2008. I finally had to cancel my policy. And this was all BEFORE OBAMA EVER BECAME PRESIDENT!!!!!!!!!!!
Your health insurance premiums went from $140 to $213 a month in four years. A 52% increase in four years.
My insurance premiums have gone from $500 to $1000 a month in three years. A 100% increase in three years. Plus, for my 100% increase in cost, I now have no drug coverage, a $6000 annual deductible, and I am losing my doctor.
What you fail to acknowledge are the exponential increases and truncation of patient choice of physician since the implementation of ACA.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,601,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgustav
What first world nation has nationalized health care and/or college successfully? It hasn't worked well in Canada for health care.
The Left is often looking at the Scandinavian countries as a utopian model to follow. Look at the tax rate workers in Scandinavian countries pay for nationalized health care and free college. Somebody has to pay for it. Look at the well paid pro athletes in these countries, they often move to Monaco or another lower tax country for their residency.
Would you stop spreading false info about Canada's healthcare system? I already gave my example of dual citizens I knew for years who would drive to Canada ANY time they needed to see a doctor/dentist/optometrist. So it's working for them. And all you say about paying more taxes, if you aren't having to shell out for premiums or out of pocket copays and deductibles, it more than works out in the end
The Canadians who come here for healthcare, are usually part of Canada's top 5%, so they can afford to drop $30-$50k out of pocket, where 95% of people CAN'T!
Would you stop spreading false info about Canada's healthcare system? I already gave my example of dual citizens I knew for years who would drive to Canada ANY time they needed to see a doctor/dentist/optometrist. So it's working for them. And all you say about paying more taxes, if you aren't having to shell out for premiums or out of pocket copays and deductibles, it more than works out in the end
The Canadians who come here for healthcare, are usually part of Canada's top 5%, so they can afford to drop $30-$50k out of pocket, where 95% of people CAN'T!
I have many friends who have lived there all their life and have had different situations to experience the problems there. So your anecdotal dismissal is not valid.
My solution:
1. Have two systems in the same time. One is single payer for all. Second is a private insurance with free market rates if one wants to go ahead of the line.
2. Open special visa quotes for doctors and RN from abroad. Every doctor (from the West, Russia and East Europe) will be entitled for a temporary visa that will become a green card after passing the exam.
3. Triple the premiums for obese people and smokers after 2 years warning.
Only to visit. I try to stay away from self-absorbed asses.
That's why they are called "Californicators" in many places, because they bring their attitudes with them to whatever state they move to and then try and make it just like where they left.
Would you stop spreading false info about Canada's healthcare system? I already gave my example of dual citizens I knew for years who would drive to Canada ANY time they needed to see a doctor/dentist/optometrist. So it's working for them. And all you say about paying more taxes, if you aren't having to shell out for premiums or out of pocket copays and deductibles, it more than works out in the end
The Canadians who come here for healthcare, are usually part of Canada's top 5%, so they can afford to drop $30-$50k out of pocket, where 95% of people CAN'T!
My solution:
1. Have two systems in the same time. One is single payer for all. Second is a private insurance with free market rates if one wants to go ahead of the line.
2. Open special visa quotes for doctors and RN from abroad. Every doctor (from the West, Russia and East Europe) will be entitled for a temporary visa that will become a green card after passing the exam.
3. Triple the premiums for obese people and smokers after 2 years warning.
How about we don't treat our people like they are peasants, we respect their liberty, don't infringe on it and allow them to choose as they will without our interference and money theft schemes?
I mean, this being a free country and all that supports liberty, this seems like the prudent path to take?
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,601,062 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by NxtGen
How about we don't treat our people like they are peasants, we respect their liberty, don't infringe on it and allow them to choose as they will without our interference and money theft schemes?
I mean, this being a free country and all that supports liberty, this seems like the prudent path to take?
In your world, 95% of people wouldn't be able to afford to see a doctor or dentist, so we would have a bunch of toothless people with a much higher mortality rate, and avg life expectancy would probably drop to between 55 and 60
Well what do you expect when doctors are making $200-$300k/year and hospital and health insurance company executives are making $1mil plus/year, that their product will be cheap? This is why health care should be single payer!!!
That's part of the problem as is the number of tests run to avoid getting sued. I'm for having a basic health coverage for all and if you want more, you pay. the Unaffordable and I don't Care Act sux.
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