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Old 02-25-2008, 11:54 AM
 
745 posts, read 104,815 times
Reputation: 135

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For those that think Detroit is a crime hell hole try taking a time machine back to Memphis in the 1920's. Guess who was a close second......

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive...CF&oref=slogin


Detroit is by far the "most dangerous" city today, but it is no match for Memphis in the 1920's.

Detroit (today) 44/100,000 murders per capita

Memphis (1920) 55/100,000 murders per capita

Savannah, GA (1920) 42/100,000 murders per capita


Also note Memphis in 1909-1913 (71.2 per 100,000) had a homicide rate that would make Bogta, Columbia, Gary, Indiana, and Camden, NJ look like club med.

i'll have more comparisons later.......If you do not learn from the past you're doomed to repeat it.

Any ideas why the high murder rate?

Here is some additional reading

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive...CF&oref=slogin

Last edited by truthhurts; 02-25-2008 at 12:04 PM..
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Old 02-25-2008, 11:57 AM
 
3,395 posts, read 2,642,475 times
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Compare Detroit in the 1980s to pretty much any American city at any time.
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Old 02-25-2008, 12:01 PM
 
745 posts, read 104,815 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Carbonni View Post
Compare Detroit in the 1980s to pretty much any American city at any time.

Frank, still doesn't hold up to the Crime Capitals of Prohibition. However, just for humor i'll accept your challenge and grab that data.
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Old 02-25-2008, 12:08 PM
 
3,395 posts, read 2,642,475 times
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Not saying it to be sarcastic or to start a fight, but rather that most cities had a higher murder rate in the 80s than they do now.

That means you are now seeing the Kinder, Gentler Detroit.
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Old 02-25-2008, 12:11 PM
 
745 posts, read 104,815 times
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No, I think I should take on your challenge its a great question. However, remember Washington DC was the crime capital of America during the 1980's and DC i do not believe topped 60/100,000 murders, so it would not be comparable to Memphis at 71 per 100,000 in the early 1909-1913...However, note that most of the estimates made in the 1900's were considerably lower than the real rate of homicide, because the information was not shared as freely..please i invite you to read the atricles.

I'm also making the larger point of government intervention and laws, that influence crime etc.....The Dr who tracks this research in the 1900's makes it a point to call the current laws very "Lax" in respect to murder.
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Old 02-25-2008, 12:31 PM
 
745 posts, read 104,815 times
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Here's a list of the murder rate per 100,000 people in 1921

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive...CF&oref=slogin

Memphis, TN 56.8
Savannah, GA 42.0
Nashville, TN 35.1
New Orleans, LA 20.0 (NO has always been bad long before Katrina)
Louisville, KY 18.5
St.Louis 17.2
Cincinnati, OH 16.2
Los Angeles, CA 13
Indianapolis, ID 12.9
Washington DC 12.8
Chicago, IL 11.8
Baltimore, MD 11.8
Cleveland, OH 10.8
Dayton, OH 10.1
San Francisco, CA 9.8
Pittsburgh, PA 9.4
Boston, MA 8.7
Spokane, WA 8.6
Minneapolis,MN 7.1
Seattle, WA 7 (Wow, Seattle used to be a pretty dangerous city oh that's right prohibition major bootlegging area)
New York, NY 6.2
Philadelphia, PA 5.1
Providence, RI 5
Buffalo, NY 4.8
Newark, NJ 4.7 (Newark was relatively safe at one point in history hehe)
Reading, PA 4.6
Rochester, NY 4.2
Milwaukee, WI 3.6
Hartford, CT 1.4

Murder Rate 1920 12.0
Murder Rate Today 5.7

Here is a link today http://www.statestats.com/cit05r.pdf Compton, CA and Gary, ID would top the list. Wonder if there are any similairities between Compton, CA and the problems of 1921 St.Louis and Savannah, GA? I wonder if the high rates are "drug related?" Drive by shootings, robberies, gambling, and mugging oh my so much in common with these four places. It is like history is repeating itself all over again, just different races this time.

I wonder what turned Savannah, GA around, what laws changed etc? 1921 42 murder per 100,000 and now less than 4 murder per 100,000......Memphis 56 murders per 100,000 and now less than 20 murders per 100,000.........How could we learn from past high crime areas? Why aren't these sort of question being asked in today's public discourse?
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Old 02-25-2008, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Land of Thought and Flow
7,691 posts, read 9,191,961 times
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I'd venture that even with raw data in numbers.. Detroit today is "worse" than Memphis in 1920.

The big difference is the Media and Internet. Today, we can get information so much faster and easily than in the 1920's. As such, you and I can easily find crime data, income data, and everything else about cities in a matter of minutes (search time included). The current media situation is "Gloom and Doom" for the ratings.

As such, Detroit (and other cities like it) are seeming to be worse than they really are.
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Old 02-25-2008, 12:44 PM
 
745 posts, read 104,815 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuharai View Post
I'd venture that even with raw data in numbers.. Detroit today is "worse" than Memphis in 1920.

The big difference is the Media and Internet. Today, we can get information so much faster and easily than in the 1920's. As such, you and I can easily find crime data, income data, and everything else about cities in a matter of minutes (search time included). The current media situation is "Gloom and Doom" for the ratings.

As such, Detroit (and other cities like it) are seeming to be worse than they really are.
Hehe i'll try this easy to read step again. I'll post the statistics given in 1920's,which for all accounts, because of the lack of information are extremely low.

Here are the homicide rates per capita in the most Dangerous US Cities in 1926


Birmingham, Ala........... 58.8
Memphis, Tenn............ 42.4
New Orleans, La. .......... 33.7
Kansas City, Mo.......... 32.3
Dallas, Tex................ 32.0
Charleston. S. C........... 29.7
Nashville, Tenn............ 29.2
Mobile, Ala............... 28.4
Louisville, Ky. ............ 26.7
Houston, Tex............. 25.8
Detroit, Mich............. 25.3
Sacramento, Calif.......... 21.8
Pueblo, Colo. ............. 20.5
Kansas City. Kans......... 18.8
St. Louis, Mo............. 18.6
Cincinnati, 0.............. 18.2
Winston-Salem, N. C....... 18.1

USA Murder Statistics for 1926

I'll ask my main question. Why aren't we using historical data to fight today's problem with crime? What did we do back then to eliminate high rates of crime in the 1920's, that we are clearly not doing today? Also why isn't the media referring to historical data? Why is everyone pretending the US homicide rate only spiked in the "inner city ghettos" of the 1980's? Why are we so focused on making this a black white issue? Why don't we take a deep look into the characteristics of the people who lived in those high crime areas and how they eventually turned their high crime areas around? Yea controversial and tough questions, but someone has to have the answers!
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Old 02-25-2008, 01:03 PM
 
Location: New Orleans, LA
595 posts, read 1,635,192 times
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It's likely a result of poverty.
New Orleans in the 1920s was the premier business capital of the South, yet it still had a high murder rate.
I'd bet a good bit of that was then as it is now black on black killings in poverty ridden neighborhoods. I could be wrong.
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Old 02-25-2008, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Land of Thought and Flow
7,691 posts, read 9,191,961 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truthhurts View Post
Hehe i'll try this easy to read step again.
And I will say that I forgot to edit a word. I meant to say that:

"Detroit today seems 'worse' than Memphis in 1920." And I follow with the phenomena of high-speed internet allowing us to access information a helluva lot faster than in 1920.

We're more exposed to how bad of a place it is. Thus, it seems worse than other places in the past.
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