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I'm sorry so many of you are so insecure with yourselves, it's sad.
What makes you say that? We're discussing news on a message board. Do you think the male posters on the thread are exhibiting toxic masculinity? Do you think we should therefore change who we are? Or ignore the efforts mentioned in the article?
Details as to why you're making that assessment (that "we" are insecure and that that's "sad") would be helpful in supporting your supposition.
I don't think you understand what toxic masculinity is.
Basically, the same things that force women into certain boxes also force men into boxes. There's nothing wrong with a man being sensitive and caring, or pursuing interests outside of traditional masculine activities, or not wanting to have sex with an attractive woman at any given time. Yet men are shamed for these things, and it absolutely contributes to many of the psychological things that men face. It also absolutely contributes to rape culture.
There are some radical feminists who hate men, but these groups tend to be run by men who realize that they are forced into boxes by society and want to change it for the better. They don't want to feminine men. They want to make them authentic.
Ummm, where did you infer I said that there is something wrong with a man being sensitive and caring? Or with taking pleasure in things outside of traditional masculine activities? "Toxic masculinity" I suppose, would be a decent term to describe the shaming you speak of, but it could also be accurately described as peer pressure, without being made gender specific. Girls/women are faced with exactly the same sort of pressure from other females. Is that then "toxic femininity?".
I submit that what your describing here is more boxing up , for men, than what is considered standard societal behavior. Much of what your describing here is more an I dividual or perhaps small, isolated group behavior than societal. I certainly don't see how any of what is being advocated by these...anti gender...programs is going to make Men more authentic. Rather it would be denying what we, as men are.
Personally, I don't feel any need to change either the way I think or how I physically appear, which again would be quite non authentic. This whole concept is forcing men, specifically into boxes, and requiring that we admit, or perhaps acquiesce would be a better term, that being born male is to be fundementaly flawed. That as we are , without some kind of conditioning and even alteration of our physical selves, a detrimental influence upon the human female. A gbreag. All of us capable of, even anticipating, victimizing women is some way. So , according to what these gender denial efforts are advocating preemptive measure to ...defuse us..are required. Before we act on our hardwired predatory instincts. "Rape culture" as you call it, is not a general male creation either. It is, again, I dividual or small group behavior. And should be addressed at that level. However, rape on campus or on the street, is a seperated issue from what we are discussing here.
What is being discussed here is a perception, nay an accusation, that being male is a negative thing, and requires ...intervention..at as early an age as possible so as to correct nature's grievous errors in our design. Lol, no, I don't think I'm misunderstanding what "toxic masculinity" is. I may define it differently. But I don't think that definition to be incorrect.
What makes you say that? We're discussing news on a message board. Do you think the male posters on the thread are exhibiting toxic masculinity? Do you think we should therefore change who we are? Or ignore the efforts mentioned in the article?
Details as to why you're making that assessment (that "we" are insecure and that that's "sad") would be helpful in supporting your supposition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Financialguy
I had the same thought. Apologies to all the creamy man-bun lefties out there but you're wusses and deep down, you know it.
Probably because of posts such as this and others. Like I said, insecure.
Define "rape culture" and provide examples that demonstrate its existence.
Scenario: you're a single college guy with two of your single buddies at a party. At the party, you and your buddies start talking with these three (single) young ladies. They are hot, like a perfect 10/10. They seem to be into you. Now, you're a respectable guy who actually wants to get to know a girl before you start hooking up, but this girl is perfect. You're never going to hear the end of it from your buddies if you don't seal the deal. BE A MAN - they tell you, and as a result, you start compromising your principles.
You might be strong enough to withstand the pressure and deal with the ridicule lessening your masculinity, but there's no denial that there's pressure to score with her. Now so far, we're in a consensual situation, but what is she isn't interested? What if she is too intoxicated to consent? Is that pressure to score going to go away? Of course not - even though I'm guessing most guys wouldn't continue. That "pressure" to continue to avoid humiliation or being viewed as less of a man is rape culture - and it's fueled through toxic masculinity.
There's also nothing wrong with pursuing traditionally masculine activities.
Of course, as with all Regressive Left ventures, this idea has an easy, ready appellation for anyone who dissents or criticizes it: Male Fragility
I never said that there's anything wrong with pursuing traditionally masculine activities. There's a problem with FORCING anybody to do anything. That includes both insecure wannabe alpha-males who ridicule any guy who steps out of the masculine box, and radical feminist man-haters who want to turn boys into girls.
Any example using American football:
Healthy: I like football because it's interesting and fun. -OR- I don't like football because it's boring.
Not healthy (toxic masculinity): I like football because I'm a man and real men like football GRUNT GRUNT GRRR!
Not healthy (radical man-hating SJW nonsense): I don't like football because it's so violent and indicative of the patriarchy blah blah blah social justice warrior speak [choke on a slice of a arugula.]
Scenario: you're a single college guy with two of your single buddies at a party. At the party, you and your buddies start talking with these three (single) young ladies. They are hot, like a perfect 10/10. They seem to be into you. Now, you're a respectable guy who actually wants to get to know a girl before you start hooking up, but this girl is perfect. You're never going to hear the end of it from your buddies if you don't seal the deal. BE A MAN - they tell you, and as a result, you start compromising your principles.
You might be strong enough to withstand the pressure and deal with the ridicule lessening your masculinity, but there's no denial that there's pressure to score with her. Now so far, we're in a consensual situation, but what is she isn't interested? What if she is too intoxicated to consent? Is that pressure to score going to go away? Of course not - even though I'm guessing most guys wouldn't continue. That "pressure" to continue to avoid humiliation or being viewed as less of a man is rape culture - and it's fueled through toxic masculinity.
This is seriously the stupidest and anti-male thing I ever read. If a "10" is interested in you, then you must be the top dog male and get women throwing themselves at you all the time. And secondly, guys are not going to be supportive of another guy moving in on an overly intoxicated female, nor is her female friends.
In reality, there would be "****blocks" coming out of the wood work. Her female and male friends, random male competitors, probably even your own buddies.
This is just fiction and not how it really is. You can just take a girls number you know and your buddies will still be impressed, or even hang out alone and just talk and tell your buddies later you scored like guys always claim, or get better buddies. Women don't go out drinking and talk to guys they are not interested in to begin with.
Ummm, where did you infer I said that there is something wrong with a man being sensitive and caring? Or with taking pleasure in things outside of traditional masculine activities? "Toxic masculinity" I suppose, would be a decent term to describe the shaming you speak of, but it could also be accurately described as peer pressure, without being made gender specific. Girls/women are faced with exactly the same sort of pressure from other females. Is that then "toxic femininity?".
I submit that what your describing here is more boxing up , for men, than what is considered standard societal behavior. Much of what your describing here is more an I dividual or perhaps small, isolated group behavior than societal. I certainly don't see how any of what is being advocated by these...anti gender...programs is going to make Men more authentic. Rather it would be denying what we, as men are.
Yeah, my understanding of "toxic masculinity" is the shaming that I described, along with subtle messages that are harmful to men's pysches. Of course, these do exist for women as well.
Quote:
Personally, I don't feel any need to change either the way I think or how I physically appear, which again would be quite non authentic. This whole concept is forcing men, specifically into boxes, and requiring that we admit, or perhaps acquiesce would be a better term, that being born male is to be fundementaly flawed. That as we are , without some kind of conditioning and even alteration of our physical selves, a detrimental influence upon the human female. A gbreag. All of us capable of, even anticipating, victimizing women is some way. So , according to what these gender denial efforts are advocating preemptive measure to ...defuse us..are required. Before we act on our hardwired predatory instincts. "Rape culture" as you call it, is not a general male creation either. It is, again, I dividual or small group behavior. And should be addressed at that level. However, rape on campus or on the street, is a seperated issue from what we are discussing here.
What is being discussed here is a perception, nay an accusation, that being male is a negative thing, and requires ...intervention..at as early an age as possible so as to correct nature's grievous errors in our design. Lol, no, I don't think I'm misunderstanding what "toxic masculinity" is. I may define it differently. But I don't think that definition to be incorrect.
I'm a male. I like being a male. I don't think that there's anything wrong with being a male at all. I am as much against radical feminists hijacking legitimate points for their own man-hating agenda as the rest of you.
But I think it's important for men to have discussions about what ideas, patterns, etc. in our culture are harmful. A lot of men aren't even willing to entertain that idea, which I find very sad.
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