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HE$$ NO! Not hardly! Trying to explain it to people who seem to have all sorts of screwy ideas about how our system works.
I think you and ParkTwain are arguing apples and oranges. In economic terms, he's absolutely right. Supply and demand being determined by people's ability to pay IS a form of rationing. Maybe that does not sit well for you, because "rationing" may be used in a different context in health care proposals. However, he is not wrong from an economics standpoint.
But no one has mentioned that even now, people can't always get what they need in a timely fashion, even with good plans.
I know my husband had to wait almost three months to get needed surgery. The insurance company wanted him to take a battery of other tests first, so that they can come to the conclusion that the original osteopath came to. So they ended up spending a lot more money on a procedure they would have had to do anyway. A second opinion would have expedited the thing a lot faster, and would have costs a lot less money.
Yeah, the original argument talked about the $800K bill, but it never substantiated why it was over inflated to begin with. Even if one spreads out the cost between life saving procedures and routine ones, where the routine ones cost a little more to offset the life saving ones, the numbers still don't jive. I once had an appendectimy where the cost of "room and board" at the hospital was about 50% of the cost of the entire procedure. It was around $12K for 4 days. I could stay at the fanciest of hotels (in NYC), never leave bed, order in room service, and get the butler to fluff my pillows for half of what I spent at the hospital. And I assure you, I didn't get half that service while in the hospital for 3 of the 4 days I was there.
And the bit about our heroic life saving efforts... well...... we don't rate well as a country compared to other (similar situatioed ones) when it comes to life expectancy, particularly our infant mortality rate.
I think you and ParkTwain are arguing apples and oranges. In economic terms, he's absolutely right. Supply and demand being determined by people's ability to pay IS a form of rationing. Maybe that does not sit well for you, because "rationing" may be used in a different context in health care proposals. However, he is not wrong from an economics standpoint.
But no one has mentioned that even now, people can't always get what they need in a timely fashion, even with good plans.
I know my husband had to wait almost three months to get needed surgery. The insurance company wanted him to take a battery of other tests first, so that they can come to the conclusion that the original osteopath came to. So they ended up spending a lot more money on a procedure they would have had to do anyway. A second opinion would have expedited the thing a lot faster, and would have costs a lot less money.
What people here don't seem to get is that HEALTH isn't a commodity.
You can choose whether to buy a TV, or not, depending on your wishes and money you have.
However, ONE doesn't choose to get gravely ill, and may not have money to buy services he needs.
Rationing doesn't work here because MOST(ok, few hypohondriacs do go more often) people don't like to go to doctor anyway... be it "free" or not.
Private Insurance corps see $$$$ when you come... you're not a person.
It is not right, from moral, humane etc. point of view to let anyone rot and
die because he/she doesn't have money.
Private insurance system in US is, from moral, ecnomic, and EVERY other point of view a disaster.
Look at it this way... what's the input? output?
Input is LOT of money... output is 50 million uninsured, people dying, and worst western HC system.
I always quote the NHS system of the UK, Because it works and works well. Let's forget that or Canada. Let's just concentrate on the American Health System. If a Health system does NOT satisfy the needs of all the citizens of a country, it has failed.
The US health system, as it stands today, has failed miserably, over and over again. Even the people on here who support the current system talk about how they pay monthly premiums plus co pay plus whatever other extra payments that they have to make, and then say this is a good affordable system. Only affordable if you CAN afford it. We aren't talking about how big a house you can buy, or how big a car, that is up to your pocket and is individual to you and NOT a necessity. We are talking about a 21st century human right, Good Health Care for all. Does America like having a much inferior health care system to even poorer countries than themselves. Even India now has a comparable health care system to the USA. The insurance companies own your healthcare system. They own you too. They decide where you get treatment and even what treatment you are allowed to have. It costs each individual a fortune every month. Even if you brag about only paying, let's say, $500 per month, that is extortionate. Every penny you pay to a private health care plan is wasted money unless you get treatment. Add it up over the years you are paying fortunes to fat cat CEO's. UHC, by the fact that everyone pays, is much much cheaper. It covers absolutley everyone and your whole family is covered, from baby to the elderly. If a person has a $100,000 transplant or a $500 proceedure, you do NOT pay any more each month. You Do not get teeth cover or cover for glasses. Everything else is covered. You can even get a retirement plan in the payments too. Only greed can ruin a UHC, and from these posts it seems that greed in the USA is on the rise and who cares about American Citizens sick and dying in the Greatest Country in the World.
I always quote the NHS system of the UK, Because it works and works well. Let's forget that or Canada. Let's just concentrate on the American Health System. If a Health system does NOT satisfy the needs of all the citizens of a country, it has failed.
The US health system, as it stands today, has failed miserably, over and over again. Even the people on here who support the current system talk about how they pay monthly premiums plus co pay plus whatever other extra payments that they have to make, and then say this is a good affordable system. Only affordable if you CAN afford it. We aren't talking about how big a house you can buy, or how big a car, that is up to your pocket and is individual to you and NOT a necessity. We are talking about a 21st century human right, Good Health Care for all. Does America like having a much inferior health care system to even poorer countries than themselves. Even India now has a comparable health care system to the USA. The insurance companies own your healthcare system. They own you too. They decide where you get treatment and even what treatment you are allowed to have. It costs each individual a fortune every month. Even if you brag about only paying, let's say, $500 per month, that is extortionate. Every penny you pay to a private health care plan is wasted money unless you get treatment. Add it up over the years you are paying fortunes to fat cat CEO's. UHC, by the fact that everyone pays, is much much cheaper. It covers absolutley everyone and your whole family is covered, from baby to the elderly. If a person has a $100,000 transplant or a $500 proceedure, you do NOT pay any more each month. You Do not get teeth cover or cover for glasses. Everything else is covered. You can even get a retirement plan in the payments too. Only greed can ruin a UHC, and from these posts it seems that greed in the USA is on the rise and who cares about American Citizens sick and dying in the Greatest Country in the World.
So - a home and transportation is not necessary???? Really?
Greatday, You must learn to read a post properly. Not try to distort peoples words. It can be quite annoying. I SAID...We aren't talking about how big a house you can buy, or how big a car, that is up to your pocket and is individual to you and NOT a necessity. I said it is not a necessity to have a big car or big house. THAT is not a necessity. Do keep up Greatday!
Last edited by madicarus2000; 03-10-2008 at 01:18 PM..
Reason: Lost in a void of white background space. :)
Greatday, You must learn to read a post properly. Not try to distort peoples words. It can be quite annoying. I SAID...We aren't talking about how big a house you can buy, or how big a car, that is up to your pocket and is individual to you and NOT a necessity. I said it is not a necessity to have a big car or big house. THAT is not a necessity. Do keep up Greatday!
Oh, I keep up - very well thank you.
The problem with your position is, definition(s). What you, by your standards is a "big house" or a "big car" is not necessarily anothers definition.
So, who will make the final interpertation of what "big" is? Or, how "big" is needed?
OBTW - you might want to edit your previous post as all the blank area is not only annoying but, a violation of the TOS
An excellent article on socialized medicine. It does bring to light the fact that a universal health plan does not reduce costs of health care, which is the real problem in America.
Persoanlly, I would never entrust my health to the government and I wonder why anyone would either.
I cannot understand why the post came up in such a huge box. I do apologise to anyone on these posts that find this "annoying". As far as "big" is concerned, i am not trying to say what is big. I know you read it that way Greatday, but you do tend to read everything with a biased eye. I am saying that people should stop quoting Canada or UK Health systems as if they are no good. It is quite the opposite. If you cannot even listen to peo0ple who have actual experience of how a UHC works, your argument is just probably's and maybe's.
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